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Smartest Person in SW Universe Ever

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Smartest Person in SW Universe Ever

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.27.2013 , 08:39 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Everything he says is right, those are basic Jedi qualities that for a thousand years worked, only what? around 8 or 9 Jedi ever went Dark Side the entire time and at one point there were 15,000 of them, all light side, his positives FAR outweighed his negatives.
Well of course, but really all he was doing was reciting the Jedi Code, which wasn't any help to Anakin at all.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
06.27.2013 , 08:40 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well of course, but really all he was doing was reciting the Jedi Code, which wasn't any help to Anakin at all.
It kinda was, just that Anakin chose to ignore it. If he had followed Yoda's advice, Padme would still be alive and he would still be a Jedi.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.27.2013 , 08:43 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
It kinda was, just that Anakin chose to ignore it. If he had followed Yoda's advice, Padme would still be alive and he would still be a Jedi.
But the point is he didn't, and I feel that is where Yoda failed.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
06.27.2013 , 11:05 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But the point is he didn't, and I feel that is where Yoda failed.
Anakin listening to Palpatine is somehow Yoda's failure? Yoda (and other Jedi) has a habit of allowing others to make their own decisions. He allowed Dooku to leave the Jedi Order because it was his time to go (stated in Jedi vs. Sith).

Would you have expected Yoda to force Anakin to listen to him? That would only make it worse.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.27.2013 , 11:22 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Anakin listening to Palpatine is somehow Yoda's failure? Yoda (and other Jedi) has a habit of allowing others to make their own decisions. He allowed Dooku to leave the Jedi Order because it was his time to go (stated in Jedi vs. Sith).

Would you have expected Yoda to force Anakin to listen to him? That would only make it worse.
Well in part, yes. Anakin is aware of the Jedi Code, Yoda reciting it to him is not going to be of any help. And in that sense he failed. Perhaps if the Jedi Code was not so black and white it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I don't really think I can give points to Yoda for knowing the Jedi Code, which let's face it leaves much to be desired.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
06.27.2013 , 11:27 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Well in part, yes. Anakin is aware of the Jedi Code, Yoda reciting it to him is not going to be of any help. And in that sense he failed. Perhaps if the Jedi Code was not so black and white it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I don't really think I can give points to Yoda for knowing the Jedi Code, which let's face it leaves much to be desired.
I still don't see how Anakin falling for Palpatine's manipulations is Yoda's fault.

Yoda told Anakin to 'train himself to let go of everything he fears to lose.' If Anakin had listened to Yoda, then Padme would still be alive, and Palpatine would have been defeated. I don't see how Yoda was wrong.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.27.2013 , 11:51 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I still don't see how Anakin falling for Palpatine's manipulations is Yoda's fault.

Yoda told Anakin to 'train himself to let go of everything he fears to lose.' If Anakin had listened to Yoda, then Padme would still be alive, and Palpatine would have been defeated. I don't see how Yoda was wrong.
He wasn't wrong, but it was bad advice. If someone was suffering from depression and I told them to just get over it, that doesn't make it good advice, even if by following it their problem would be solved. There was no chance that Anakin was going to just stop loving Padme. Yoda didn't know that? Well I'd say killing a whole tribe of Tusken Raiders after the death of his mother would imply Anakin was pretty susceptible to making attachments.

Really the best advice Yoda could have given Anakin was to remind him that the 'always in motion is the future' and that acting on premonitions that may or may not come to pass is not advisable. Rather than telling him to turn his heart to ice and dance on Padme's grave when she died - which he clearly was not prepared to do.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
06.27.2013 , 12:28 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

Really the best advice Yoda could have given Anakin was to remind him that the 'always in motion is the future' and that acting on premonitions that may or may not come to pass is not advisable. Rather than telling him to turn his heart to ice and dance on Padme's grave when she died - which he clearly was not prepared to do.
Clearly you are exaggerating, because Yoda did not say that he should dance on her grave. Nor did he say that Anakin should turn his heart to ice. If you read Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, then you know that Yoda would never say that.

However, judging from ESB, Yoda does learn from his 'mistake,' and tells Luke that the vision isn't guaranteed. But the thing is, would saying that to Anakin have worked? It didn't work on Luke, why would it work on someone more 'emotionally vulnerable?'
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.27.2013 , 01:03 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Clearly you are exaggerating, because Yoda did not say that he should dance on her grave. Nor did he say that Anakin should turn his heart to ice. If you read Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, then you know that Yoda would never say that.

However, judging from ESB, Yoda does learn from his 'mistake,' and tells Luke that the vision isn't guaranteed. But the thing is, would saying that to Anakin have worked? It didn't work on Luke, why would it work on someone more 'emotionally vulnerable?'
Dance on her grave: "Death is a natural part of life, rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not."
Heart to ice: "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

OK, so I exaggerated a little.

However, imagine telling that to someone whose loved one is going to die from a terminal illness. Think that would make things better? No, it effectively amount to telling a person to get over the depression. Though yes his words were a lot wiser in ESB. And no, it may not have worked, but it would have been much much better advice.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
06.27.2013 , 01:21 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Dance on her grave: "Death is a natural part of life, rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not."
Heart to ice: "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

OK, so I exaggerated a little.

However, imagine telling that to someone whose loved one is going to die from a terminal illness. Think that would make things better? No, it effectively amount to telling a person to get over the depression. Though yes his words were a lot wiser in ESB. And no, it may not have worked, but it would have been much much better advice.
Yes, you exaggerated. Like the Jedi Code, Yoda's words are not meant to be taken literally. It takes a deep understanding of Jedi philosophy to understand these things.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku