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Why I'm giving up crafting.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Why I'm giving up crafting.

caronome's Avatar


caronome
06.02.2013 , 08:05 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRealFluffy View Post
If someone puts in the effort to reach the top in a craft, they should be able to craft the best gear in the game. Otherwise there's simply no point.
I agree with you except that it can never happen in any non-Sandbox game. The best they can do is give certain slots to crafters. I don't know of an MMO that allow you to craft BiS for most slots that is not a sandbox.

If you could buy BiS then a lot of the motivation and incentive for people to run ops would go away.

mike_is_valid's Avatar


mike_is_valid
06.02.2013 , 08:34 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
What difference if the mats come from raid drops? Buy them on the gtn, craft, sell for a profit.

You can still make plenty of millions without ever setting foot in a raid.

Oh, and "License to print money" is absurd hyperbole. Most of the raiders I know are not remotely rich. And the crafters I know that are, don't need to raid to make good money.

Read the thread stickied at the top of this forum if you need to learn how to profit in this game.
Where did you read anything about not being able to make money?

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.02.2013 , 09:29 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by mike_is_valid View Post
Where did you read anything about not being able to make money?
You made a big issue about fairness and "license to print money"

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
06.02.2013 , 09:31 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by caronome View Post
I agree with you except that it can never happen in any non-Sandbox game. The best they can do is give certain slots to crafters. I don't know of an MMO that allow you to craft BiS for most slots that is not a sandbox.

If you could buy BiS then a lot of the motivation and incentive for people to run ops would go away.
True, but that is a real problem (probably the worst) in modern mmo design. The end game strategy is to push people to raid. Yet most people are not raiders. If most of those that do raid have a significant part of their motivation as gear advancement, how many are raiding for the fun, challenge, and enjoymnt of the raid itself? Of the few who do raid because they like raiding, where is there to go after the last boss on the last raid is down and they have BIS gear?

Crafting is actually one of the largest sandbox element in any mmo and will keep people playing and spending hour after hour honing their skills and participating in commerce. Yet at best. it is given a weak try and, as you noted, sacrificed to raiders. Some (most?) games tie crafting at the highest levels into raiding by making the rare schematics and mats into raiding as drops. That serves non raiders poorly and ends up creating a two class craftng system which in the end, gets people to raid for the profit and not for the raid itself. How many guilds (rich rich guilds) have raids on farm after doing them for the first few times?

So we indeed do not see mmos giving (non raiding) crafters much cap level oppertunity. We see mmos adopt a raid or die cap level design philosopyy. We also see people bailing out of mmos after playing them for a short to moderate amount of time after they reach cap, level an alt or two and then feel that there is nothing to do. We see raiders bail in droves at least until a new raid is introduced and then they resub, beat the raid, and then unsub again. I wonder if there is a correlation there.

Edit - LOL, I rember in Cata that there was a daily chain that took a lot of work, but gave a BIS trinket. I remember some of the raiders coughing up a hair ball in rage over that. But I also remember that there were so many people running the dailies (no lag and good respawn time so everyone could do them without frustration) that you could almost not see the mobs for the number of players running around. I also remember how pleased that I was when I got my trinket.

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
06.02.2013 , 10:32 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
This is a fair request.

But tell me now, do you really believe, that on The Harbinger, crafting is both "not useful for gaming" and "not beneficial for making money"?

And if so, can you elaborate on why that is?
Second point first. You can make money crafting. Case in point, I gave my wife 2M credits a little less than a week ago to buy some CM shiny that she wanted from the GTN. She insisted on paying me back and has done so in under a week. She can spit out TRs and Beryllius faster that can be believed. Her sustained crit rate defies belief. I will be sending her out to buy some lottery tickets on Monday.

But the market is limited and money making oppertunities are not wide spread. Mods, armoring, enhancements, barrels, and hilts (with a few exceptions) on a Makeb level or below have gone from viable crafting products to Planetary Commendation purchases. Armor (Synth and Armormech) is not worth craftng any longer since you can pick up adaptive CM gear dirt cheap on the GTN. You can also get gear and weapons for PCs. With the drop in item modification crafting came a drop in mat pricing. Most money mats pre 2.0 have dropped in price to the point that if you can sell them, they sell for less than the mission cost. Yup, I can still craft implants and earpieces and a few other things, but with all of the crafters being forced into a smaller product universe, profit margins if you can make a sale have dropped.

Let's see, Arch and Scavaging have two new mats between level 6 and level 9. You can still make money on them but there are page after page of listings. Everyone is running missions for those mats. That does not bode well long term. It is better with Bio but not so much. Slicing, TH, Inv, UT have two new mats between 6 and 9. Yip, yip. One of those mats is totally worthless and the other, the purple, crit based. You lucky - profit, you not lucky - watch credits go bye bye. And then what can you make with those mats? A few worth while augments, mods, armorings, etc. Yip, yip. We have established that on your server those few can be sold for more than the mat cost and on mine at below the mat cost. Yip, yip.

Purples come from bountyful and rich mission only afteer 2.0. Bountyful missions cost a hundred or two less than rich and yet if you crit provide much less return. So bountyful missions make no sense to run (as well as moderate or abundent). So now, there is only one mission type to run. That's not good. Throw in the fact that you have to replenish you mission list to actually get a viable mission, that is not good at all.

I note that crafting mission costs have almost doubled with 2.0. It's been a while since I have run a Makeb daily and am not sure how they compare in cash generated with the other pre Makeb dailies. But on the whole, my non crafting income has been pretty stagnent while my crafting costs have more than doubled (more than because I am getting a lot more failed missions than before 2.0). That is not good.

So yes, crafting is still somewhat useful and depending on server, if you ara a lucky puppy you can still make credits. There are also only a few plays where you can make money without the gods of luck resting on your shoulders. But all in all the profit / money making ability in crafting has significantly decreased for most and the useful items that can be crafted (especially for players in the leveling process) has been severly limited.

Please do not misunderstand my tone in this post. I have the greatest respect for you. My tone is directed at the new system.

lilmanweddle's Avatar


lilmanweddle
06.03.2013 , 10:38 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
Wrong, making the top tier gear available to everyone makes end game raiding useless.
The whole point of end game raiding is to obtain the best gear available, not for everyone and their brother to buy it off the GTN.
Why not? If people have the patience to make it and the money to buy it.

Locking the best gear to operation level seems backwards to me, allow people to specialise and excel in other areas and you'd have a happier player base.

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
06.03.2013 , 10:40 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by lilmanweddle View Post
Why not? If people have the patience to make it and the money to buy it.

Locking the best gear to operation level seems backwards to me, allow people to specialise and excel in other areas and you'd have a happier player base.
Because, if you're able to be fully geared with the absolute best gear before even setting 1 foot into the instance, what's the point of even doing them?
The gear is the "carrot on the stick" for us raiders,that's what drives end game raiding.

lilmanweddle's Avatar


lilmanweddle
06.03.2013 , 10:45 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
Because, if you're able to be fully geared with the absolute best gear before even setting 1 foot into the instance, what's the point of even doing them?
The gear is the "carrot on the stick" for us raiders,that's what drives end game raiding.
The carrot is still there, no-one has suggested taking drops out of ops. But why should dedicated crafters/explorers/money-makers not have access to equally good reward?

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
06.03.2013 , 10:47 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by lilmanweddle View Post
The carrot is still there, no-one has suggested taking drops out of ops. But why should dedicated crafters/explorers/money-makers not have access to equally good reward?
I just answered your question, yet you keep asking why.

lilmanweddle's Avatar


lilmanweddle
06.03.2013 , 10:50 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
I just answered your question, yet you keep asking why.
Then I fail to see your point.

The guy doing Flashpoints with his 3 mates shouldn't have access to the same gear as people who run Ops? I've never understood the attitude.