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Healers in PvP - resources no longer needed?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Healers in PvP - resources no longer needed?

SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
05.27.2013 , 09:46 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
They do go OOM, but most are smart enough not to. Plus, different healers = different energy mechanics. The only one who's probably a bit overpowered regarding energy management is maybe the Commando - my friend's got one and he roflstomps...most players just "give up" after not being able to kill him.
In my experience, Commando is the toughest to manage for resource (on my Scoundrel in particular I have to make an active effort to run out of Energy, Sage a little trickier because its a healing glass cannon, but on my Commando, I can run low on ammo if I get too complacent very rapidly). Considering that the others two healers dominate group healing and burst healing, I don't think its overpowering that a Commando can be sustainable if you budget yourself well at the cost of overall output.

Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
I think the healer problem is two fold:

1. As mentioned here, resources. If healers want to stay as powerful as they are right now in PvP their resource consumption needs to go up. I really don't care if this affect PvE because its obvious healers aren't having any resource issues in PvP or PvE. Lets just call a spade a spade, healers have it really good right now.

2. Cross healing. Healers healing healers is simply unstoppable at some points. Two healers can hold up a node indefinitely. Even one healer can defend so long that the rest of their team has minutes to get there. As soon as the cross healing starts, its game over for any attacking team.

A simple fix to overhealing in PvP is a debuff called exhaustion. After your character has received X number of heals you begin to build stacks of exhaustion.

One stack is 10% healing debuff.
Two stack is 30%...
Four is 75%
Etc

This debuff would not diminish self healing.

There is the opposite version as well. Exhaustion could debuff your SELF healing making sure you can't spam heals on yourself. It would force healers to be team components and not tanks.
I don't know if anyone from Pre-1.2 is still on these forums, but damn, this is deja vu ain't it? This is the same kind of complaining that led to a major nerf of healing in 1.2. Surprisingly enough, its the same update that put Scoundrels on the map for healing PVP and they are yet to be dethroned (Sages have become a good competitor in 2.0). Combat Medics on the other hand got an overkill gutting, but hey, onto the present.

I do think healing is a little over-tuned right now. It should not be possible to solo-heal a warzone, in my opinion. I don't think a massive nerfing of the classes is necessary (unless you nerf the other two and buff Commandos, but that's just my jaded side talking) and you don't need an exhaustion debuff, they can just increase the effect of PVP Trauma (you know, that debuff that already reduces your healing received in PVP by 35%). I would say you need to increase just enough that you cannot solo-heal a warzone, but it still needs to be in balance with the amount of damage you can sustain in the same period of time.

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JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
05.27.2013 , 09:54 AM | #22
^ The classes themselves are fine.. its the relationship between new tier gear upgrades and healing output relative to damage / mitigation that is not fine. This is why, back in 1.2 Bioware reduced the amount of heals received via expertise. You have to keep in mind that this is a PvE game first. Healers are built around boss PvE raiding mechanics NOT PvP. All they have to do is adjust the healing received mechanic again and the problem goes away.

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
05.27.2013 , 10:04 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Cretinus View Post
It's not about killing them 1X1. It's about shuting them down so that they no longer can properly heal their team. Currently, a healer under pressure is still able to heal himself and his team.
No they can't. If 1 dps can't tie up a healer they are terribad.

Spellhunter's Avatar


Spellhunter
05.27.2013 , 10:20 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
No they can't. If 1 dps can't tie up a healer they are terribad.
So, do u think on rwz healers can't heal anything and there are a lot of deaths?
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Eillack's Avatar


Eillack
05.27.2013 , 10:22 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Jayshames View Post
I don't get why people complain that healers can't be killed 1v1.

If they were easy to kill for 1 person then barely anyone would play them and thus make every match besides ranked basically just a DPS fest.
How dare you bring common sense into these forums!?
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MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
05.27.2013 , 10:36 AM | #26
Regarding ROOF. Sages can easily go ROOF if not careful and proactive. There is always a competition between max hps and force management. In a bit more detail, salvation is resource hungry; benevolence gives slightly higher hps and it is fast cast but at the same time it is a force Gargantua, while on the other hand deliverance is force friendly but not as effective as benevolence; do you cast faster/instant salvation or use the counters for noble sac.... it all depends on the dynamics of the situation and the status of your force pool. Scoundrel healers have an easy force management at the moment without sacrificing much of their hps, they can HOT the whole team in a short amount of time without losing any energy. Can't speak for commandos as I haven't played one.

Sheemie's Avatar


Sheemie
05.27.2013 , 10:37 AM | #27
The reason people think healing is OP is that reg WZ are extremely unbalanced. The reason many people say it is a L2P issue is that in ranked pvp where you have similar skill level and proper team composition (2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 Dps) the ballence is the best this game has seen so far. However in regular WZ you will hardly ever see 2 teams with a good composition and skill lvl ballence. While the op may be a very competent dps the problem lies in the other dps on his team. I will agree that operative heals have very easy reasorce management sorcs on the other hand do not. Also reasorce magment has less to do with duration of the fight and more to do with the amount of damage the team takes. If only one good dps is tunneling a healer and the other dps on the team are garbage the healer will have no problem keeping up the entire team.

I sorc heal for our ranked team and if u check out my stream there are many times that I burn my resources and this makes the team and myself very vulnerable. Also not that just because operative healers have easy reasorce management does not mean they are invulnerable, if you force and oprative to use his roll he will easily burn all his resources. If healing was overpowered in ranked games no one would die or you would only need one healer.

StaticSilence's Avatar


StaticSilence
05.27.2013 , 10:51 AM | #28
Yes healers are a bit op. they need to be brought down a bit so that they need to rely on tanks for protection.
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Pattotwo's Avatar


Pattotwo
05.27.2013 , 11:52 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
You need to L2Interrupt because healers are fine.

They do go OOM, but most are smart enough not to. Plus, different healers = different energy mechanics. The only one who's probably a bit overpowered regarding energy management is maybe the Commando - my friend's got one and he roflstomps...most players just "give up" after not being able to kill him.

But my scoundrel, and both our sorcs, are shut down by interrupts. Do you know what an interrupt is? You have a separate interrupt skill, but then you also have pushbacks, pulls, grenades, mezz, stun, all these things interrupt the currently channeled skill.

If you take away the healer's ability to cast the largest skills, then he will eventually die. Unless you're 1v1'ing a scoundrel below 30% health and he has an upperhand, then he spams emergency medpac - so call a friend and dps him down
I think we found a bad healer here haha trying to save his class getting a nerf... Seriously healing is out of control right now and to prove it just look how many healers u see in every game didn't see that 6 months ago..

zaknaphein's Avatar


zaknaphein
05.27.2013 , 12:30 PM | #30
Welcome to a grp based game. MMO