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Agent/Smuggler Roll

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Agent/Smuggler Roll

DweezillKagemand's Avatar


DweezillKagemand
04.28.2013 , 05:12 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Fordel View Post
What's it matter if it lets you claim an otherwise out of reach objective? Or even just escape the fight to total reset?

Unless you decide to roll in circles around a bunch of enemies, being out of energy is not going to outweigh the advantage all those rolls gave you in the first place.
Let's take the Hypergate pylon as an example, the pylon has a certain delay immediately after a blast where you can't cap it. Meaning if you and lets say, a shadow were to race to get to the pylon, you'd arrive first but be unable to cap and you now have no chance of fending off the shadow as you just used all the energy to roll there in the first place.
Dweezill
Top Hatin' Player

Elear's Avatar


Elear
04.28.2013 , 05:16 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Fordel View Post
I'd recommend a roll counter instead. If you do 2+ rolls in X seconds, you get a small cooldown then. If you can limit your roll spam, you don't have a cooldown. Just to give some kind of window of reaction.

It's just dang silly when you see them all chaining 3,4,5+ rolls non-stop.
This is relatively sound solution, except that I would go with cost increase instead of CD. Let's say decrease base cost by 5 energy, and then each roll increases cost of rolling by 10 energy, for 6-8 seconds. 2 rolls cost same, 3 are still possible, 4th if you burn resource regen CD. But overall, it makes you do less rolls at once. Could be tweaked, to bigger base reduction/on-use increase, making it more usefull in fights, but less as long-distance movement tool.

Fordel's Avatar


Fordel
04.28.2013 , 05:25 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Elear View Post
This is relatively sound solution, except that I would go with cost increase instead of CD. Let's say decrease base cost by 5 energy, and then each roll increases cost of rolling by 10 energy, for 6-8 seconds. 2 rolls cost same, 3 are still possible, 4th if you burn resource regen CD. But overall, it makes you do less rolls at once. Could be tweaked, to bigger base reduction/on-use increase, making it more usefull in fights, but less as long-distance movement tool.
That is certainly another possibility, a cost increase on successive rolls in X time frame.



DweezillKagemand - What's the cooldown on Adrenaline Probe? What's the cooldown on pylon explosion waves?
I'm not sure there's actually a big advantage to racing to cap a pylon in Hypergate early either way though.

Not like in say voidstar, where being able to race to a door to place a bomb before anyone else can blink will pretty much end the game right there.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
04.28.2013 , 06:43 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by redfour View Post
I honestly think adding a cooldown would fix the issue, i think somewhere around 8 seconds would be good
3 seconds. 4.5 seconds MAX and it wouldn't kill the ability.

This ability needs to remain very low on CD because it is a crappy ability. If you go up to 6 seconds, you need to remove the snare weakness thing on it (assuming you keep the high energy cost), and yet you would still cry because we'd be good huttball carriers.


It's a crappy ability that can be countered fully by a stun, mezz, root, and partially by a snare. With the abundance of the aforementioned (see: one of the many resolve qq threads), you should have no problem stopping an operative from rolling.

What? You can only stunlock for 8 seconds? Well, given the current TTK (see: one of the many ttk qq threads), you should have NO problem killing a squishy little operative.

L2p and stop whining. I've never has lost a huttball match due to an operative/scoundrel. They've gotten the ball first, yes, but it did nothing after we killed him.
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
04.28.2013 , 06:49 AM | #25
double post
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Fearine's Avatar


Fearine
04.28.2013 , 07:21 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Coldin View Post
I don't know what Hybrid would be able to spam it. Only by going high up in Concealment does it become cheaper, and nothing I know of in the other trees increases energy regen to any significant degree.
Well there are two talents in Lethality/Dirty Fight tree which increase Alacrity by 2% and decrease cooldown of Stim Boost by 30 seconds. Also there is one more talent at Medicine which improves the Adrenaline Probe.

Of course you cannot have them both plus the reduced cost for roll.
But these two combined with Alacrity gear can give you enough energy to "they see me rollin they hatin"
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Q: Someone told me his son (George Lukas) played the game.
Answer: (Bioware) Yeah I heard that too. A lot of us with teenage kids try to get them to explain things to us.

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
04.28.2013 , 09:20 AM | #27
Stop bothering Ops man and L2P.
Funny thing is, before 2.0 it was assassins getting ball first and no complains were raised. Yeah we can be 1st there in huttball, so what? Because of this you cry nerf?
With progresively decreased energy regen by the time you reach mid, you're dry and you have mere second to pass it, then you're focused and dead.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
04.28.2013 , 09:40 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
I'm not a fan of roll either, but as per your sprint sarcasm joke...Roll takes a lot of energy to use. By the time they get the ball they have practically zero resources.
swtor 2.0 myth. no it does not. I didn't realize this until I started playing my scrapper. I absolutely dominated hb. an ops/scoun who knows how to use roll is more dominant than guardian/juggs used to be with their immunity to CC after leap (pre 2.0 abil). and you can literally roll from spawn to end zone. it's almost impossible to target a roller if you don't already have him targeted before he rolls. energy regen allowed me to go ball spawn to end zone with plenty of energy to spare. the ability is broken in the sense that there's nothing close to it for any other class. it's a sustainable sprint that's better than sprint and requires no ramp-up (e.g., predation/transcendence). It's not, imo, whiny to ask for a 5s or 10s cd. imo, 2 rolls in a roll are fine. the ability to spam 3-6 times, though, turns it into a bit of a joke, imo.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

underpantsgnomes's Avatar


underpantsgnomes
04.28.2013 , 09:50 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
3 seconds. 4.5 seconds MAX and it wouldn't kill the ability..
This. 8 sec is an eternity in PvP. Make it a short CD and we're good. Even 2 seconds would fix the silliness.
Truth lies within.

Kontraz's Avatar


Kontraz
04.28.2013 , 10:06 AM | #30
3 sec CD with 25 energy or 5 sec CD with 10 energy. Either is fine for me.


When these tumbleweeds are pointing fingers saying "look at force run" or "we don't have leap" let's keep in mind that those can typically be countered. Leap only brings you to where someone already is (either an opponent or ally) and force run only increases your speed - meaning that while you are gaining the distance you are still vulnerable. The 12 second roll is (to my knowledge) instant or near to it, meaning in order to stop someone who is about to use it (keep in mind, this is a stealth class, so it is very difficult to predict where they will be) you have to be within 18m of them, or they are in the clear. In just 1 GCD that 12m distance doubles to 24m, and then once again to 36m.

Putting the range of a sniper's max in between you and and opponent in 2 GCDs is just insane in my opinion.

I've seen E & W capped in civil war at the same time by two scoundrels who went off in separate directions as soon as the match started. And it wasn't an issue of needing a screener for the cap, the defenders simply could not get there in nearly enough time.

Likewise, I have seen an operative break stealth on the upper platform in huttball overlooking mid (by the fire pit) just in time to catch the ball. He pulls a sonic the hedgehog and in 4 GCDs has already scored without anybody even being able to attack him.

I'm all for the ability being in the game. In typical combat, I think it is a great addition. The energy cost for the utility even each other out. But for objective-based warzones where it doesn't matter if you die after scoring? It needs to have a cooldown.