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New Subber - Holy Trinity Concerns

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > New Player Help
New Subber - Holy Trinity Concerns

wolveen's Avatar


wolveen
04.27.2013 , 08:41 PM | #1
Hi Guys,
I just bought this game and so far I am having a blast!
The story, the music, the graphics, the options, companions, and the Voice acting is just great!!!
I really enjoy this game, I am glad I finally gave it go!

However I noticed today that I was kicked out of a group because I was the wrong type of Bounty Hunter?
Apparently they wanted a healer. It was done pretty rudely, iirc it went like this
"Are you a healer?"
I said "I can try"
"OK so you are not specced as a healer"
So and So has initiated to Vote Kick you from the group.
Vote passed

What?!

So now I am thinking this awesome game seems to have the old school mentality of the Holy Trinity needed in order to group and enjoy the content.

It also has these "Heroic Areas" from Everquest 2 where you are locked out of some areas if you are not in a group.

I am not trashing this game at all so don't go there, I really like it and I am (was) considering subbing up for a year.
I am just concerned after today's revelation and seeing these 'heroic areas' how much of the game will I be locked out of or will have to pass over if I am not one of Holy Trinity that is needed, I kind of like rolling with my own RP character. I didn't think Modern MMOs (at least all the ones I am currently playing) still went the Holy Trinity formula.

Is this Holy Trinity mechanic present throughout the game?

Thanks in advance!

Ryat's Avatar


Ryat
04.27.2013 , 09:06 PM | #2
Yes, the trinity concept is in play. On the flip side, many of the "Heroics" can be soloed (though not all) and if you call out your corner of the trinity when requesting a group for a heroic then you can avoid this issue. A word of note, make sure that when you are using the LFG tool you mark only what you can do. Sometimes the LFG tool just picks up on what you might choose not on what you did choose.

wolveen's Avatar


wolveen
04.28.2013 , 09:46 AM | #3
Thank you for the insight and tips!
I will play out the free month of sub and hopefully have a better gauge of the game by then.
Seems there are quite a few trolls, griefers, etc on the Drummond planet but I heard it trickles away after that.

I hope it does this game is really good.

I am usually an alta-aholic but this game really engages me in the story to where I just want to see how it plays out for my character almost like watching a movie.
It would be a shame that they would cling onto the old ways of group mechanics instead of embracing the modern mechanics.

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
04.29.2013 , 04:07 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by wolveen View Post
It would be a shame that they would cling onto the old ways of group mechanics instead of embracing the modern mechanics.
why would that be a shame?
specialising is a good thing, that way you can concentrate on what suits you the best, and let someone else fit the role you dislike.
that's the way I see it although I enjoy playing all three Roles.

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
04.29.2013 , 04:21 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by wolveen View Post
It would be a shame that they would cling onto the old ways of group mechanics instead of embracing the modern mechanics.
For my part I love the trinity and that's one of the reasons I can't play GW2 for too long
T3-M4 - Lvl 60 Chars:
LeoniŽ&Caipha PT, Eleondra&Eleondraa Op
T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper
Hannahla Merc, CaphalÝr Sorc, Kindarya Assa

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.29.2013 , 04:23 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpekulatius View Post
why would that be a shame?
specialising is a good thing, that way you can concentrate on what suits you the best, and let someone else fit the role you dislike.
that's the way I see it although I enjoy playing all three Roles.
Disrespectfully disagree. I find small-group content way more engaging than Operations, because I get to multitask way more.

For example, my newest Operative used to do all kinds of epic stunts of rolling into cover (to avoid an incoming salvo of Snipes/Unloads), cycling debilitate and flashbang, doing on-the-spot healing and some spike damage with ExProbe, Backstab, Shiv, Snipe pre-20 (like world 4-man heroics - loved Hadra's defeat because there were so many patrolling droids and so many opportunities to wipe, yet so many opportunities to come out on top). But as I neared 40, off-spec activities started to make less and less impact on group performance to the point of not being worth the effort. I either kept healing, or kept stabbing, depending on the spec, occasionally tossing stuns/flashbangs here and there. In Operations, I was basically reduced to doing one thing while dodging encounter-based stuff. Not heroic. Not epic. Not exciting.

Now, then, the abolition of roles is another dangerous extreme (like the guy above mentioned) - but the best thrill, the best dynamics, the best balance of specialization and general usefulness, I've experienced at lower/mid levels. Hyperspecialization makes the experience much, much less than what it could be.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
04.29.2013 , 04:47 AM | #7
If you don't like the Holy Trinity, then go and play DDO.
Why ? Because it always requires 4 people, not 3.
SWTOR is completely missing a Trapper. And ANY raid or group without a good Trapper is going to wipe in DDO, especially in raids.
Me, I'm not a believer in the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity is an insult to my abilities, because it is imho far too shortsighted and far too simple mechanics. Only tanking, damaging and healing, nothing more ? Boring, imho.
I play SWTOR because of the story, that's why I enjoy it. And because I'm a Star Wars fan. Had SWG been F2P, I had been in it, too.

My advice is : If you do group quests, go tell them what kind of character you are playing.

And : Put them into your ignore list if they votekicked you.
Me, I wouldn't want to play with people like this again.

PLynkes's Avatar


PLynkes
04.29.2013 , 05:20 AM | #8
It's just about the only thing about this game I don't really like, but it is a biggie: The gameplay.

I'm not a fan of traditional MMO gameplay (most of all the trinity, but not only that), and it can't die soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Everything else about the game is what keeps me here.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
04.29.2013 , 05:31 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by PLynkes View Post
It's just about the only thing about this game I don't really like, but it is a biggie: The gameplay.

I'm not a fan of traditional MMO gameplay (most of all the trinity, but not only that), and it can't die soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Everything else about the game is what keeps me here.
Problem is - there are no better alternatives. The 4+role division is clunky as far as group composition is concerned, and the complete lack of trinity turns PvE into zergfest and reduces the tactical and strategic components of PvP.

What I really don't like is hyperspecialization that's forced on the characters. The idea of "soft trinity" is much more appealing than what we have now. Although, it used to be a lot worse in EQ, Vanilla WoW (TBC, to some degree), where healers and tanks practically counldn't solo because their damage was so miserable it took forever to kill anything.

ToR was definitely going in the right direction when it "softened up" the role division, but, in my opinion, it didn't soften it enough.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

DarthSpekulatius's Avatar


DarthSpekulatius
04.29.2013 , 06:27 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Spoiler

you have a good point there I wouldn't mind higher single target DPS on my heal specialised scoundrel while I'm only healing with HOTs but if we start to expect Healers to DPS as well as heal what will the DD's/Tank's get as added responsibility's in exchange?
or are you saying we should buff the group DPS without altering the encounters to keep the challenge as it is?
I think clear responsibility's are better.
as an example in TFB first boss if I say "someone has to stand in these purple fields to grab the attention of the Adds" it will almost certainly lead to a wipe in a Group that isn't familiar with the fight and one another even in story mode. if I look at the OPS frame and call out a name at random it's free loot.

if everyone was expected to burst heal as necessary and kite Adds while avoiding AOE circles and keeping their full DPS on the Boss (not to mention being thrown around and stunned half the time) the Skill requirement would go through the roof.
I'd rather do neglectable DPS while healing to keep myself from being bored on a good day, then make it impossible to do what's expected from me on a bad one.


don't misunderstand me I'd take more DPS in a heartbeat,
but I don't think they can do it without overpowering one role or putting a much higher demand on the Player behind it then on the others. (I'm against that. since atm I have at best a random as a Co-Healer at worst one of our DD's substituting for one. I have to work hard enough to get them to Heal as it is)