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Please allow Guard buffs from multiple tanks in PvP.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Please allow Guard buffs from multiple tanks in PvP.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
04.25.2013 , 05:54 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Illyean View Post
as soon as the guard moves out of range of his guarded target the guard buff should drop off, personally I would like to see the dopey fecker teleported back to the healer he was guarding so he is forced to do the job rather than hunt medals but that's just me In much the same way i would like to see the 3 muppets who chase to cap a node all explode the moment they run away from it
yeah but it's annoying if you get pulled or something (or if you accidently just get out of 10m), because then you have to reapply guard, which requires you to reselect your original target, target your friend, GCD, etc.
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
04.27.2013 , 08:50 AM | #22
It is a simple and elegant solution. Fully support this thread!

Sidrath's Avatar


Sidrath
04.28.2013 , 05:12 AM | #23
Thanks! So far it sounds like the 3 main solutions we could propose are:

1. Tanks can apply Guard to anyone, even someone already Guarded. Only the nearest tank absorbs the damage transfer. The 5% bonus to mitigation from Guard should -not- stack from multiple Guards.
Pros: Clear and simple solution.
Cons: Gives tanks the highest flexibility out of any of the proposed solutions; arguably the 'strongest' change of the three.

2. Guardees whose tank has been out of range (>15m) for more than a set duration (say, 10 seconds) automatically lose that Guard buff, enabling a fresh tank to take over.
Pros: It'll pretty much take care of most situations where a wayward (read: newb) tank slaps a Guard on someone and then runs to a different node. It also still allows for set plays to shine, like pulling the Guard out of range to blow up the guardee healer (something you can counter in 1. by applying two Guards on the healer if needed).
Cons: Might have to reapply Guard more frequently in some situations.

3. Blue "out of range" Guard icon instantly makes Guard on that person overwritable by any tank. So, you can't take over Guard or double-stack Guards on anyone already being protected, but you can take over the moment they're not.
Pros: Would allow for some clutchier play: if you spot a Guard being deliberately pulled/pushed to assist down a healer, you can take over that Guard at once. No 10s window of waiting, but also no easy pre-placing of multiple Guards on sensitive targets.
Cons: Might find yourself occasionally losing Guard on someone due to the briefest periods away from them, in the presence of overzealous tanks.
Sidrath - JuggernautSídrath - Powertech

Uggen's Avatar


Uggen
04.28.2013 , 05:35 AM | #24
So it would be practically impossible to shut down guard in a rwz, cause cc'ing the main tank will only result in having another one guarding instantly without the need of taking away guard...notsigned.
Uggen-Commando
Tomb of Freedon Nadd.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
04.28.2013 , 06:53 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidrath View Post
Thanks! So far it sounds like the 3 main solutions we could propose are:

1. Tanks can apply Guard to anyone, even someone already Guarded. Only the nearest tank absorbs the damage transfer. The 5% bonus to mitigation from Guard should -not- stack from multiple Guards.
Pros: Clear and simple solution.
Cons: Gives tanks the highest flexibility out of any of the proposed solutions; arguably the 'strongest' change of the three.

2. Guardees whose tank has been out of range (>15m) for more than a set duration (say, 10 seconds) automatically lose that Guard buff, enabling a fresh tank to take over.
Pros: It'll pretty much take care of most situations where a wayward (read: newb) tank slaps a Guard on someone and then runs to a different node. It also still allows for set plays to shine, like pulling the Guard out of range to blow up the guardee healer (something you can counter in 1. by applying two Guards on the healer if needed).
Cons: Might have to reapply Guard more frequently in some situations.

3. Blue "out of range" Guard icon instantly makes Guard on that person overwritable by any tank. So, you can't take over Guard or double-stack Guards on anyone already being protected, but you can take over the moment they're not.
Pros: Would allow for some clutchier play: if you spot a Guard being deliberately pulled/pushed to assist down a healer, you can take over that Guard at once. No 10s window of waiting, but also no easy pre-placing of multiple Guards on sensitive targets.
Cons: Might find yourself occasionally losing Guard on someone due to the briefest periods away from them, in the presence of overzealous tanks.
I'm feeling 1 and 3 really good.

Bioware should hire you, and at the very least read this thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Genttry's Avatar


Genttry
04.28.2013 , 07:55 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Sidrath View Post
2.0 has significantly raised the value of bringing support classes to the table, and I'd argue tanking trees (Immortal, Darkness, Shieldtech) received some great overhauls. In turn, I anticipate more players will bring tank specs into WZs, and therefore more Guards to spread around. This leads to a noticeable quality-of-life problem for PvP tanking:

Guard buffs are currently mutually exclusive. If someone is being Guarded by a tank who's nowhere near (ie >15m away), they're not really being guarded at all. Yet that Guard buff prevents any other nearby, conscientious tank from applying theirs. You need the Guardee to manually click off the Guard buff before a nearby tank can apply theirs. Quality-of-life wise, this is pretty bad: it means a bad tank on your team can actively hinder the guard-swapping of a good tank on your team. The parallel for healers would be if healer A putting a weak heal on someone in need locked out healer B from burst-healing them: it's kinda silly.

A simple solution would be to allow multiple Guard buffs to apply, and only the nearest tank absorbs the damage transfer. If I recall, this is the system used in Warhammer Online, where the Guard system was coined (and incidentally whose PvP team got absorbed into Bioware when it acquired Mythic?). This change would allow tanks to better control their protection of teammates, and never find themselves penalised by the actions of a wayward tank. Insofar as quality-of-life is a major concern for improving gameplay - a stated aim of the devs going forward - I can't think of a good reason to not implement this. Please give it due consideration.
I fully agree that another benefit of 2.0 is to encourage not only more people to queue up, but also to allow support players an important role in PvP. Tanks have always been good on rateds, but they are now more popular in non-rateds, too. healing right now is looking good, despite what many in this forum say. Give it time, let everyone get to 55 with good gear and we will see where healing truly is. Right now, though, a guarded healer and a good tank are really kick-butt. As for your idea re: proximity...interesting.

DarthWoad's Avatar


DarthWoad
04.28.2013 , 08:10 AM | #27
If I read it correctly...you want a healer to be guarded twice...by 2 tanks...of which one of them is within 15 meters...if the first tank moves too far away or dies..the other tank standing 5m away from you will automatically guard you.

You're basically all wanting healers to be...invincible basically?

Heres an idea...get a good tank. Problem solved. Why do you want to dumb down pvp even more?

Is this what the pvp forum has come to?

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
04.28.2013 , 08:13 AM | #28
Why dumb the skill even more for healers and tanks?
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Pilgrim_Grey's Avatar


Pilgrim_Grey
04.28.2013 , 04:24 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthWoad View Post
If I read it correctly...you want a healer to be guarded twice...by 2 tanks...of which one of them is within 15 meters...if the first tank moves too far away or dies..the other tank standing 5m away from you will automatically guard you.

You're basically all wanting healers to be...invincible basically?

Heres an idea...get a good tank. Problem solved. Why do you want to dumb down pvp even more?

Is this what the pvp forum has come to?
The answer would be that the effects of guard do not stack. I do not have a problem with that. Keeps the guardee from being too tough, but does allow for people being separated in warzones and easier adjustments on the fly (and I regularly play Tanks, Healers, and DPS in PVP). It's a little QoL change that would be nice, for certain.

And also, the worst stuff on any forum is when people are derogatory to any post that comes up that has something they don't agree with. Deal with the problem you're seeing in the post without being over the top angry about it.

shyroman's Avatar


shyroman
04.28.2013 , 04:56 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Uggen View Post
So it would be practically impossible to shut down guard in a rwz, cause cc'ing the main tank will only result in having another one guarding instantly without the need of taking away guard...notsigned.
correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't that only really affect voidstar, because don't most teams run 2 tanks, and an assassin tank is guarding the off node, leaving the other tank to be the only one at the node where the fight is at, and in huttball, a jugg tank usually carries the ball and they don't guard people as to not take that extra damage. It would definitely be a game changer in voidstar, but i don't think the other warzones will be affected that much, at least in ranked warzones.
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