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High APM = hard to play, low APM = easier to play?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
High APM = hard to play, low APM = easier to play?

Svii's Avatar


Svii
04.25.2013 , 04:20 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Honestly, I don't think there's much of a correlation between APM and difficulty in this game. I use APM primarily as a metric to tell if a DPS of a known spec is making timing mistakes or delaying abilities. If I know a spec, I know what it's APM *should* be on a certain fight, and so I can make judgements from there. APM isn't even remotely useful comparing *between* specs.
Exactly. I use APM to compare my own parses, same boss and spec. I'm usually between 35-40 APM on my Sniper (MM) and have looked at other classes like Mercs/Sorcs and we can't really compare directly, I'm roughly 5 APM above these two. I think taking cover counts as an Action as well and that happens many times per minute, so that inflates the number I guess.

Frog_brains's Avatar


Frog_brains
04.25.2013 , 10:53 AM | #12
I would think that operative would have the highest APM, if your using the poision tree, you have only 1 action that's channeled and that's from cover. The rest of the skill set is all instant cast, and with the alacrity boost now affecting the GCD it should be an even higher rate.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
04.28.2013 , 05:49 PM | #13
Most classes are bounded for APM by the GCD which gives a soft cap of 40 APM. Off the GCD abilities (such as Riposte, Precision Slash, Shoulder Cannon and most CDs) and abilities which reduce the GCD (Ataru form's Zen, Mental Alacrity) push that cap a little higher. Comparatively, specs that rely on channels and casts longer than the GCD (Balance Sage, Dirty Fighting Gunslinger) will have lower APM. Alacrity affects this but the difference isn't noticeable unless you stack a reasonable amount.

Highest APM is Guardian Tank thanks largely to Riposte (I average in the low to mid 50s) followed by Combat Sentinel thanks to Ataru's Zen and Precision Slash (I average in the high 40s).

EDIT: I don't think APM is a great measure of difficulty but it is useful for comparing performance within a spec. For example an Assasult Vanguard should be maintaining 38-30 APM without much difficulty while Balance Sage's should be closer to 30 APM. Personally, I find monitoring procs while maintaining high situational awareness to be more difficult than hitting more buttons so APM isn't a great indicator of difficulty, especially since most of my classes are higher APM but lower or more obvious (such as ability reset) proc classes.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
04.29.2013 , 09:49 AM | #14
I agree w/ other folks that from class to class it's not a real good judge. I think it can be useful when comparing your own logs to each other, especially in heavy movement fights to see where you can improve. But, that's probably about where the utility stops.
Bonkurz

paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.10.2013 , 11:43 AM | #15
I agree with most you guys... I use it too to compare parses of the same class/spec but that is about it.

Anyway.. i'd like to nominate Saboteur Slingers and Engi Snipers as the highest APM spec

http://www.torparse.com/a/220044/tim...0/Damage+Dealt
http://www.torparse.com/a/220068/tim...0/Damage+Dealt
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
05.12.2013 , 06:55 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
I agree with most you guys... I use it too to compare parses of the same class/spec but that is about it.

Anyway.. i'd like to nominate Saboteur Slingers and Engi Snipers as the highest APM spec

http://www.torparse.com/a/220044/tim...0/Damage+Dealt
http://www.torparse.com/a/220068/tim...0/Damage+Dealt
Looking at those parses I'd say they're more to do with how TorParse registers the Scatter Bombs w.r.t APM. It seems to view each individual Scatter Bomb as an individual ability. As such, it's counting each Covered Escape as 5 abilities and artificially inflating your APM. This is a great example of why APM is only useful for comparing within a class an spec and not cross class.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.12.2013 , 08:13 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
Looking at those parses I'd say they're more to do with how TorParse registers the Scatter Bombs w.r.t APM. It seems to view each individual Scatter Bomb as an individual ability. As such, it's counting each Covered Escape as 5 abilities and artificially inflating your APM. This is a great example of why APM is only useful for comparing within a class an spec and not cross class.
How were you able to see how torparse registers scatter bombs? just out of curiosity.
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
05.12.2013 , 08:32 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
How were you able to see how torparse registers scatter bombs? just out of curiosity.
It's an educated guess. Since I know for a fact you don't have 20 abilities a minute that are off the GCD (Guardians are the highest at ~12 + CDs) and it appears as though other specs and classes only get one ability activation for AoEs or DoTs so it wasn't a ticking ability being counted multiple times and you don't have enough alacrity to bring your GCD down to 1s. After ruling out the other options, Scatter Bombs is really the only difference between Engi and other specs so I counted the number of Scatter Bombs per minute and its about 17 on average. Then thinking about how I would implement the ability as a programmer it makes sense: each bomb is considered a separate ability since a target could be affected by 1 but not the other 4. It is essentially placing 5 discrete ground targeted AoEs.

58 - 17 = 41 which is right about where I'd expect you to be for APM unless you had lots of off the GCD abilities or GCD reductions such as Combat Sentinel and Defence Guardian. Now that isn't proof, but its a strong enough correlation to draw the conclusion that TorParse is registering each Scatter Bomb as a separate ability.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.13.2013 , 11:27 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
It's an educated guess. Since I know for a fact you don't have 20 abilities a minute that are off the GCD (Guardians are the highest at ~12 + CDs) and it appears as though other specs and classes only get one ability activation for AoEs or DoTs so it wasn't a ticking ability being counted multiple times and you don't have enough alacrity to bring your GCD down to 1s. After ruling out the other options, Scatter Bombs is really the only difference between Engi and other specs so I counted the number of Scatter Bombs per minute and its about 17 on average. Then thinking about how I would implement the ability as a programmer it makes sense: each bomb is considered a separate ability since a target could be affected by 1 but not the other 4. It is essentially placing 5 discrete ground targeted AoEs.

58 - 17 = 41 which is right about where I'd expect you to be for APM unless you had lots of off the GCD abilities or GCD reductions such as Combat Sentinel and Defence Guardian. Now that isn't proof, but its a strong enough correlation to draw the conclusion that TorParse is registering each Scatter Bomb as a separate ability.
Nice insight! Ima have to look into this myself :P
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

HayleyR's Avatar


HayleyR
08.26.2013 , 12:52 PM | #20
Would you then be able to explain my APM's here?


http://www.torparse.com/a/391313/1/0/Damage+Dealt
http://www.torparse.com/a/395356/30/0/Damage+Dealt

If you can explain it to me that'd be great

Ar'lah - Watchman Sentinel, 36/7/3 72's. The Ebon Hawk. - oh, and I have NO alacrity mods in my gear. I've been swapping them out for Accuracy.