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Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.25.2013 , 02:26 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
The issue with that is that then members of Team Rebels will be distracted by trying to incapacitate Durge, allowing Team Seps to either score or kill members of Team Rebels.
see the issue with that is i see everyone on the seps dead before this. The rebels only distracting durge as he has nothing the team isnt able to either parry away with their lightsabers or just telekenetically throw it away unless he goes at them in melee just increasing his chances to be incapacitated. Heck knowing the rebel troopers I actually say even they have a chance to incapacitate or keep durge busy through clever trapping.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.25.2013 , 03:46 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
The rebels only distracting durge as he has nothing the team isnt able to either parry away with their lightsabers or just telekenetically throw it away unless he goes at them in melee just increasing his chances to be incapacitated.
Flamethrowers. Luke/Rahm/Starkiller cannot stop their heads from being seared into a crisp. Sorry, they can't.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.25.2013 , 03:59 PM | #93
Well, I'll take Beni's post as a "Rebels win" kinda statement. I guess it's a tad pointless to continue when the judge says that one team has two characters that are far better than any of the other team's players.

But what the heck, why not.

I agree that we should focus more on Huttball tactics, meaning that the Seps will be moving in a group. Grievous is a general, after all. They'll protect the ball carrier (Durge) and easily leap to, climb to, or jetpack across the arena. Dooku could use the Force to tear the arena apart and create an easier path. Durge could shed his armor and become a gigantic stretchy mass that could easily carry the ball from the middle to the endzone in one long stretch. The Sith have plenty of knockbacks, including Force Choke, Force Push, and lightning. Grievous could twirl his lightsabers around a pathway, blocking the Rebel's pursuit. Each of them are also accustomed to combating multiple opponents at the same time, making them ideal ball carriers.

And on the flip side, the Seps will be skilled at taking out the ball carrier. Even if every Rebel player can 1v1 every Sep player, that's not what's going to go down 90% of the time. Luke/Rahm/Starkiller vs. 7 lightsabers and a flamethrower will not end well. Any Rebel that gets the ball will have an extremely difficult time facing even two of the Seps at a time, seeing as they have never even faced multiple opponents (of considerable power) at once.

So do the Rebels win 1v1? Sure, why not. But unfortunately for them, this is not a 1v1 contest. It's a teamwork contest, and the Sep team is more well-rounded and equipped for protecting the ball carrier and scoring.

Not to mention that if Grievous or Ventress get the ball they won't even need protecting. Good luck catching up.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.26.2013 , 02:50 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Well, I'll take Beni's post as a "Rebels win" kinda statement. I guess it's a tad pointless to continue when the judge says that one team has two characters that are far better than any of the other team's players.

But what the heck, why not.

I agree that we should focus more on Huttball tactics, meaning that the Seps will be moving in a group. Grievous is a general, after all. They'll protect the ball carrier (Durge) and easily leap to, climb to, or jetpack across the arena. Dooku could use the Force to tear the arena apart and create an easier path. Durge could shed his armor and become a gigantic stretchy mass that could easily carry the ball from the middle to the endzone in one long stretch. The Sith have plenty of knockbacks, including Force Choke, Force Push, and lightning. Grievous could twirl his lightsabers around a pathway, blocking the Rebel's pursuit. Each of them are also accustomed to combating multiple opponents at the same time, making them ideal ball carriers.

And on the flip side, the Seps will be skilled at taking out the ball carrier. Even if every Rebel player can 1v1 every Sep player, that's not what's going to go down 90% of the time. Luke/Rahm/Starkiller vs. 7 lightsabers and a flamethrower will not end well. Any Rebel that gets the ball will have an extremely difficult time facing even two of the Seps at a time, seeing as they have never even faced multiple opponents (of considerable power) at once.

So do the Rebels win 1v1? Sure, why not. But unfortunately for them, this is not a 1v1 contest. It's a teamwork contest, and the Sep team is more well-rounded and equipped for protecting the ball carrier and scoring.

Not to mention that if Grievous or Ventress get the ball they won't even need protecting. Good luck catching up.
First of all read the the first post half the things you mention arent allowed comeback after that. But i do agree in one regard we need to focus on tactics. So I am going to cover each players ability to make a score on the team.

Dooku: dooku is the slowest member of the seps team any one on the rebel team can keep pace with him and if Luke catches him he is done fast, if galen catches him he takes some time to take out dooku unless some of the rebel troops are their to back him up, Even Rohm who uses the aggressive and kenetic juyo form should be able to take dooku with a rebel troop or 2 backing him. one of makashi's other weakness's is multiple opponents and blaster opponent's Dooku got around the multiple combatant weakness in melee combat by using his footwork to force the melee combatants to cut each other off thus he never had to face more then 1 opponent at a time and worked to make his blaster fire deflection at a good rate but when dealing with 2 of his forms weaknesses at once he will be overwhelmed. I honostly dont think any one counts on Dooku making it far or any where at all if he has the ball his slower speed means the rebels will be able to keep pace with him.

Assaj Ventress: Ventress is fast and would be able to break away from most of the rebel team save for Luke and Galen. Unfortunately for Ventress both of these members should be able to take her fairly well. Also she cant go walking willy nilly through flame traps so this will slow her down again helping to bring the full force of the rebel team on her or helping Luke and Galen catch up. With R2 at the controls of the fire pits the pits slowing her down becomes near indeffinate cutting her speed completely.If she has a good head start and R2 doesnt plug in she may be able to score as long as no respawns come up against her as Like Dooku Rohm with a few troopers behind him would be able to push her back and potentially kill her as well as LUke or galen being able to do so solo.

Greivous: the other fast member on the seps team and possibly the fastest member on this whole arena he can out pace both Luke and Galen as long as he has a clear path but once again traps will slow him down as he cant just walk through the flames with out getting burnt to a crisp meaning again Luke and galen can catch up. If galen catches greivous, greivous dies in a matter of seconds from force powers galen employs. If Luke catches him I believe their will be a fierce battle which Luke would win but the battle would last long enough for both the seps and the rebel teams to catch up. If his path is clear (no R2 in the middle and the flames just happen to hit just right) he can break away from the rebel team if he runs into Rohm+ troops on his way their he is more then capable to defend against their onslaught and make the score. But to do this it requires that his speed is not cut down at all by the traps so for ever second R2 spends in the middle is more time Luke and/or galen would have to catch up even burners turning on at the right time would slow him down allowing the speedy characters to catch up. So he has an OK chance of scoring but if galen or Luke catch him he wont last for to long (galen taking him out extremely fast while Luke would have a bit of a fight with him that would become easier for Luke the more times they face off, lukes learning curve and all.)

Durge: Now this guy is a ball carrier, mobile and tough he is fast enough that if he has enough space Niether Luke or Galen are going to catch him even if they do outpace him. He wont even be slowed down by the fire traps since he can take a short time of them and keep moving with out being slowed at all. His problem is if he gets any kind of opposition they can trap him in the fires even the support team of the special forces troopers Any of the jedi can remove his limbs or cut him in half while this wont kill him this will cause him to drop the ball and being cut in half will stun him for a few seconds enough time for one of the rebels to grab the ball and run (if galen or Luke they could get away since they outpace him slightly, if its Rohm then durge will be back up fast enough to catch the older and slower Jedi master). He has even shown to be able to be stunned by mass blaster fire and explosives something the rebel special ops are capable of, of course this is again just stunning him causing a ball drop he will be back up and in full fighting condition in a few seconds this guy may go down but it will never be for long, and he has been shown vunerable to electrical attacks people using tazers against him to decent effectiveness until he overloads their circuits something that galens force lightning will not fall prey to and once again this will stun and cause a ball drop. But most of these tactics require the full attention of one of the stronger members of the team (galen or Luke through lightning or dismemberment causing a ball drop or telekenetics in a flame causeing a larger incapacitation at the expense even more attention and time something no one has in this game) or concentrated effort from a large portion of the rest of the team. As such it is likely that he will stay with his team forcing the rebels to deal with them or risk allowing one of them to get the ball and try a break away at the end. The only disadvantage to this is it does cut down his mobility making it easier for the rebels to take their time and take him down or force a ball drop from any number of methods especially once Luke or galen are freed up. The advantage of course being he makes it closer to the end zone with out being messed with and can decide to break away from the team by going through a fire pit that is hopefully not controlled by R2 keepng the rebels from following allowing him to get a point. As you can tell I really think as many people are saying this is the scorer for the seps not unstoppable as force lightning along with several other things will stun him or cause a ball drop but it will be difficult for the rebels to do so, not impossible but difficult. If R2 is in the middle durge isnt making it through if he tries to cut the rebels off wtih the fire pit he will just cut his own team off and possibly get multiple of them killed and any less then the full team from the seps with the ball killing R2 makes it easier for the rebels to concentrate on durge and take him down. That little R2 wil be the bane of existance for the seps. As Litterally every strat the seps have to make the ball to the end requires the little guy to not be plugged in and their best strat requires the seps to have their whole team (droids included) or it just wont work and they will get overwhelmed.... decisions decisions.


I will cover the rebels in the morning didnt know i would right this much..... a lot on durge I have a feeling a lot of this will be skimed over but i dont blaim you guys for it. lol

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.26.2013 , 05:41 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
*SNIP*
Your entire evaluation has two major flaws:

1.) Traps
Almost every justification you have for why the Seps won't score is because of the traps. But you fail to remember what a Huttball arena actually looks like. There is a pit leading from the acid pit straight to the enemiy's goal line. Ventress, Grievous, and probably even Dooku could sprint across that pit and leap up the wall on the other side. Straight shot to the goal. Not only that, but there is a raised platform directly after the acid pit as well. Then, there is a much higher platform that any of those three could easily jump to again, then have a straight sprint down a catwalk to the goal. They won't even have to worry about the fire pits. They can avoid them completely. And seeings as apparently the Rebels will never be dying, there won't be anyone respawning to stop the Seps before they reach the goal.

2.) Solo
You assume each and every ball carrier will be moving solo. That will not happen. Sure, if Luke/Starkiller catch up to any one of these people, the Sep ball carrier will die, whatever. But unfortunately, they're not moving alone. Ventress and Grievous will for sure stick together. Durge will be covered by Dooku, at least. The ball carrier will never be alone, but protected by their allies, buying them time to make the quick series of leaps they need to score.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
04.26.2013 , 09:22 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Your entire evaluation has two major flaws:

1.) Traps
Almost every justification you have for why the Seps won't score is because of the traps. But you fail to remember what a Huttball arena actually looks like. There is a pit leading from the acid pit straight to the enemiy's goal line. Ventress, Grievous, and probably even Dooku could sprint across that pit and leap up the wall on the other side. Straight shot to the goal. Not only that, but there is a raised platform directly after the acid pit as well. Then, there is a much higher platform that any of those three could easily jump to again, then have a straight sprint down a catwalk to the goal. They won't even have to worry about the fire pits. They can avoid them completely. And seeings as apparently the Rebels will never be dying, there won't be anyone respawning to stop the Seps before they reach the goal.

2.) Solo
You assume each and every ball carrier will be moving solo. That will not happen. Sure, if Luke/Starkiller catch up to any one of these people, the Sep ball carrier will die, whatever. But unfortunately, they're not moving alone. Ventress and Grievous will for sure stick together. Durge will be covered by Dooku, at least. The ball carrier will never be alone, but protected by their allies, buying them time to make the quick series of leaps they need to score.
1. again read origin post doing so as far as i could tell was illegal they have to navigate it just like we would in game no bypassing those traps.

2. if greivous and ventress move together then combine their info if galen and/or Luke catch up they both are dead espeically if its AND. LUke takes ventress in short order Galen takes Grievous in short order. Luke takes greivous in a medium amount time galen takes ventress in a medium amount of time. Luke runs into both Ventress dies soon after engagement leaving Luke to handle greivous. Galen runs into both Greivous dies before sabers are even pulled leaving ventress to face galen alone. As for Dooku and durge i covered that in the durge portion.


P.S the reason for the solo was any strat where Ventress or Greivous moves with the group and Luke or Galen arent kept occupied by much of the entire time ends very badly for ventress and greivous as the moment the rebel team takes notice of them they die pretty fast and there is nothing like the hutt ball to get a teams attention. With out getting away from the large battle they just die so in a huge fight where they hold the ball they are assuradly dead fast them getting the ball requires that they out pace the group and escape the fight. Dooku is much the same way except he out paces no one thus he isnt makeing it out of the group and cant survive its focus. You will notice however when talking about durge I did talk about the whole team being their to move with durge because it is a viable strat.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.26.2013 , 09:57 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Your entire evaluation has two major flaws:

1.) Traps
Almost every justification you have for why the Seps won't score is because of the traps. But you fail to remember what a Huttball arena actually looks like. There is a pit leading from the acid pit straight to the enemiy's goal line. Ventress, Grievous, and probably even Dooku could sprint across that pit and leap up the wall on the other side. Straight shot to the goal. Not only that, but there is a raised platform directly after the acid pit as well. Then, there is a much higher platform that any of those three could easily jump to again, then have a straight sprint down a catwalk to the goal. They won't even have to worry about the fire pits. They can avoid them completely. And seeings as apparently the Rebels will never be dying, there won't be anyone respawning to stop the Seps before they reach the goal.

2.) Solo
You assume each and every ball carrier will be moving solo. That will not happen. Sure, if Luke/Starkiller catch up to any one of these people, the Sep ball carrier will die, whatever. But unfortunately, they're not moving alone. Ventress and Grievous will for sure stick together. Durge will be covered by Dooku, at least. The ball carrier will never be alone, but protected by their allies, buying them time to make the quick series of leaps they need to score.
As Beni seems to be letting us point it out instead of doing it himself (lazy so and so )
You cannot jump across traps with the ball Yes, you can jump up and line up for a pass but they can be intercepted.
Hell imo it should be: You cant jump to other platforms either, you can only move along in the style we do in game.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
Posted the prologue of fanfic Echoes.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.26.2013 , 10:38 AM | #98
Quote:
Well, I'll take Beni's post as a "Rebels win" kinda statement. I guess it's a tad pointless to continue when the judge says that one team has two characters that are far better than any of the other team's players.
I have yet to reach anything near what you might call a decision. Nor do I say or believe that any members of either team are exceptionally superior to the other, you have misinterpreted me. Not to mention that this is my opinion (in some cases) and you are free to dispute it, encouraged even.

I would bring everyones attention to the rules:

  • Do not fly with the ball! Jumping up to platforms only, no flying and no jumping over obstacles.
  • Do not wreck the Pit! Players cannot alter or destroy the arena!
  • Uber-abilities are not allowed!
  • Do not use mind tricks! Force users cannot use mind tricks of any kind on their opponents.
  • No immortality! All players can be killed, and when they are they respawn.
  • Each team has a team leader, who are responsible for tactics and organisation.
  • Each team has a support group of four but they cannot grab, throw or catch the ball.
  • Astromech units have an unique ability: they can hack and sabotage the fire traps and wind platforms by hooking up to base of ball holder.

Note that combatants cannot do what Warren suggests i.e. run across their opponents pit and jump up to the finish line. What they can do is have another member of their team waiting for them.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
04.26.2013 , 12:56 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Note that combatants cannot do what Warren suggests i.e. run across their opponents pit and jump up to the finish line. What they can do is have another member of their team waiting for them.
Well that's not very realistic. The players might as well have health bars too.

Question about the astromech droids: do they have to be constantly plugged in to control the traps? Do they go back to normal if R2 is disrupted/ stunned? Or can R2 switch the fire into the "on" position and then leave?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.26.2013 , 01:05 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Well that's not very realistic. The players might as well have health bars too.

Question about the astromech droids: do they have to be constantly plugged in to control the traps? Do they go back to normal if R2 is disrupted/ stunned? Or can R2 switch the fire into the "on" position and then leave?
Huttball is a game with rules. Combatants unfortunately can't do whatever they like else the game becomes obsolete.

As for your second point, yes they do have to be constantly plugged in. If stunned or disrupted the traps will revert back to normal. So it may be the case that a member of the Rebel team will have to provide cover for R2 - or perhaps the SpecForces... but how long will they last?