Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Mace Windu vs Sidious


Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
04.25.2013 , 11:39 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Darevsool View Post

If Anakin had chosen Windu, Palpatine would have killed them both in an instant and moved on.
^Yepp

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
04.25.2013 , 02:34 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Doctoglethorpe View Post
Any link to this commentary? I tried youtube but came up empty.
you play your dvd with commentary on around the windu duel.

Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
Sorry, but he isn't, Sidious was a powerful force user, yet he stuck to using the lightsaber alone, dispatched the other 3-4? Jedi Masters withins of each other and throughout the fight, he brought visions of Anakin's Wife in labor, though it looked like she was dying, it was a lot of deception and he was feigning defeat with Windu, like Luke was with the Emperor ROTJ.

In the end Sidious was holding back, I never understand how people can't see that...
Wrong.
"This sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try and destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber... " LUCAS

"These close up shots where Palpatine is getting the force lightning reflected back and he’s getting zapped, and the strain of all this exertion is what’s transforming him into the Emperor that we see later in Return of the Jedi..."

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
04.25.2013 , 04:36 PM | #53
To be honest, its both.
Sidious threw the duel, but windu would have killed him...

Sidious engaged with a saber to lure anakin to the darkside, yes, and windu bested him easily, through Vapaad and his sheer knowledge of any saber forms Sidious could use.
However i believe Sidious realised, when he was pressed onto his viewing window, that he really could have gone to far, and might lose.
So in a last ditch attempt he tried to kill windu with his Force Lightning, and Windu would have truly won, and sidious' gamble failed, had Vader not intervened.
The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion. Culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from… save one.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Scoundrel
Force In Balance - The Harbinger

Doctoglethorpe's Avatar


Doctoglethorpe
04.25.2013 , 09:11 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
you play your dvd with commentary on around the windu duel.
I don't have DVD's of the PT.

LordQordisz's Avatar


LordQordisz
04.26.2013 , 01:55 AM | #55
You don't know the power of the Mace.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken.

RixoFutu's Avatar


RixoFutu
04.27.2013 , 12:51 AM | #56
Palpatin threw his duel just to bring Anakin to the dark side, he made himself look weak and Windu as evil powerful Jedi who wants to kill at all cost ...
"Once, I thought myself a monster. I played in rivers of blood and laughed as innocents quaked. Yet when I touched the Dread Masters, I saw that my darkness was but a shadow of true depravity."

Zukoprince's Avatar


Zukoprince
04.27.2013 , 07:52 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by RixoFutu View Post
Palpatin threw his duel just to bring Anakin to the dark side, he made himself look weak and Windu as evil powerful Jedi who wants to kill at all cost ...
wrong Palpatine did not threw the fight

ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
04.27.2013 , 02:53 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
To be honest, its both.
Sidious threw the duel, but windu would have killed him...

Sidious engaged with a saber to lure anakin to the darkside, yes, and windu bested him easily, through Vapaad and his sheer knowledge of any saber forms Sidious could use.
However i believe Sidious realised, when he was pressed onto his viewing window, that he really could have gone to far, and might lose.
So in a last ditch attempt he tried to kill windu with his Force Lightning, and Windu would have truly won, and sidious' gamble failed, had Vader not intervened.
This, Sideous didn't completely threw the duel to lure his future apprentice, it was a gamble and you can see this by palpatine having a fried face after the duel.

RowanThursday's Avatar


RowanThursday
04.27.2013 , 03:24 PM | #59
Little from column A, little from column B.

The way I always saw it- Sidious's *plan* was certainly "Toy with Mace, hold back a bit to give myself the chance for Anakin to see Windu attacking a helpless old man and fall to the dark side by protecting me".

*But*, as a certain farm-boy later called Sidious out on "your over-confidence is your weakness".

I doubt Sidious planned on getting a faceful of his own lightning thanks to Windu's Vaapad, and losing his ability to hide Dark Side corruption (or being burned, take your pick, doesn't really matter *which* the damage was), for instance.

Pulling your punches and holding back when engaging a very powerful opponent is a very dangerous thing to do, and I suspect Sidious had miscalculated.

In other words- yes, things ended up more or less how he wanted, apart from the disfigurement. Yes, if Sidious had gone full out he could probably have killed Windu on his own sooner- *but*, as a result of his over-confidence- and under-estimation of Windu's skills in combat, Sidious *was* losing for real, rather than just pretending to lose, at the time Anakin showed up and blundered in.

That's my interpretation, at least. Doesn't necessarily have to be *right*.
"Next time you come to a rough choice in the dark, and think to yourself 'No one's gonna know'... imagine you've got yourself a mirror and hold it up, think like you're lookin' in the glass. That's who's gonna know."
-- Captain Melody January of the Freighter Hestia's Dawn.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.27.2013 , 04:01 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by RowanThursday View Post
Little from column A, little from column B.

The way I always saw it- Sidious's *plan* was certainly "Toy with Mace, hold back a bit to give myself the chance for Anakin to see Windu attacking a helpless old man and fall to the dark side by protecting me".

*But*, as a certain farm-boy later called Sidious out on "your over-confidence is your weakness".

I doubt Sidious planned on getting a faceful of his own lightning thanks to Windu's Vaapad, and losing his ability to hide Dark Side corruption (or being burned, take your pick, doesn't really matter *which* the damage was), for instance.

Pulling your punches and holding back when engaging a very powerful opponent is a very dangerous thing to do, and I suspect Sidious had miscalculated.

In other words- yes, things ended up more or less how he wanted, apart from the disfigurement. Yes, if Sidious had gone full out he could probably have killed Windu on his own sooner- *but*, as a result of his over-confidence- and under-estimation of Windu's skills in combat, Sidious *was* losing for real, rather than just pretending to lose, at the time Anakin showed up and blundered in.

That's my interpretation, at least. Doesn't necessarily have to be *right*.
The two were dueling at an impass, neither of them were able to outdo the other. It wasn't until the window bit, where Sidious was thrown back(thanks to the ledge, and Windu drawing on the fear coming from Anakin who was coming in, thus being able to overpower Palpatine.)

Quote:
Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.


--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Then moving over to the window bit..

Quote:
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut-open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain toward the distant alleys below.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Now here...there is the word FEAR that is brought up, Palpatine then stops his speed and grips the ledge to keep from falling.

Quote:
"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."
"Do you see, Anakin? Do you?" Palpatine's voice once again had the broken cadence of a frightened old man's. "Didn't I warn you of the Jedi and their treason?"
"Save your twisted words, my lord. There are no politicians here. The Sith will never regain control of the Republic. It's over. You've lost." Mace leveled his blade. "You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear."
Palpatine lifted his head. His eyes smoked with hate. "Fool," he said. He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.
"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"
]

Ok so we got it covered, they were dueling at an impass. Then to the window, that is where Sidious made his move(the part about gripping on the ledge) and where Mace overpowered him by using the fear that was coming from Anakin.

Now moving on...Sidious could have killed Windu with his lighting..

Quote:
Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"

This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Now here this makes sense, because even though in the novel he doesn't state the line unlike in the movie, as soon as Anakin cut off Windu's hand...Palpatine goes from..

"I...I'm weak...I can't..."

to

"POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!"

Which suggests, that the lighting wasn't harming Sidious at all. He was just merely faking to show Anakin that Mace was the evil one, and he was helpless to stop him.

If going by the novel, Palpatine just gets back up on his feet(like he wasn't weak) and blasts Windu away.

Quote:
"I need him alive!" Skywalker shouted. "I need him to save Padme!"
Mace thought blankly, Why? And moved his lightsaber toward the fallen Chancellor. Before he could follow through on his stroke, a sudden arc of blue plasma sheared through his wrist and his hand tumbled away with his lightsaber still in it and Palpatine roared back to his feet and lightning speared from the Sith Lord's hands and without his blade to catch it, the power of Palpatine's hate struck him full-on.
He had been so intent on Palpatine's shatterpoint that he'd never thought to look for Anakin's. Dark lightning blasted away his universe. He fell forever.


So was Mace able to beat Palpatine in a duel? Yes, Was it under his own power? No.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.