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A real expansion


SpearlikeAtom's Avatar


SpearlikeAtom
04.19.2013 , 06:17 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
You'd be paying 50-60 for that type of expansion not 30-40 just because that was the WoW equivalent.

The problem is that TOR's numbers would need to be much higher to put out an expansion with that much content and only charge 30-40 for it.

As it stands right now they'd need to charge full price in order to turn a profit on the development costs of a such an expansion.

It's easy/easier for Blizzard to do the things they do with WoW when they're pulling in a billion dollars a year from subs alone.

Basically what it boils down to is that in order for them to put out (post-game) content on the same level that Blizzard does they would need to have a customer base like the one Blizzard does.
Or have their parent company provide more funding like Blizzard has.

macumba's Avatar


macumba
04.19.2013 , 06:49 AM | #32
yeah I dunno. even with expansions for old mmo's like dark age of camelot (and they pulled from 300k subs)
had so much more content for the value even with the inflation that happened since then.

as for starcraft2 did not blizzard pull the 2 other factions from the original game just to sell it as an expansion or even separate full price game ?
maybe I am not up to speed with this but from what I've heard that was one of the greatest customer ripoff's in the last year, even mass effect3 with its rushed ending and pulled out day1 dlc fades in that light. the only thing that comes near to that might be dragon age2 that was 2-3 areas copy&pasted so much that it hurt the eyes.
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LasherC's Avatar


LasherC
04.19.2013 , 06:54 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by macumba View Post
as for starcraft2 did not blizzard pull the 2 other factions from the original game just to sell it as an expansion or even separate full price game ?
maybe I am not up to speed with this but from what I've heard that was one of the greatest customer ripoff's in the last year, even mass effect3 with its rushed ending and pulled out day1 dlc fades in that light. the only thing that comes near to that might be dragon age2 that was 2-3 areas copy&pasted so much that it hurt the eyes.
They didn't pull anything, each campaign has almost as many missions as all 3 campaigns did in the original game.

Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
04.19.2013 , 06:59 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by LasherC View Post
HotS IS a full expansion. The problem is that it doesn't make sense to compare one with the other. There's one set of expectations you have for a non-MMO and a different set for MMOs.
Of course, the games are different, I just wanted to point out that the amount of content we got for our money in RotHC is even bigger than what you get for 4 times the price in HotS, or, god forbid, something like CoD.
Yes, SC2/CoD has multiplayer, but then again, SWTOR has PvP, which is basically the same thing, just apply strategies that will make sure your race (or class in SWTOR) will beat other races (classes), adapt to what they do, and repeat that ad nauseum.

Quote:
MMOs have crappier ( for lack of a better word ) gameplay compared to other games ( especially SWTOR, which is basically WoW in terms of gameplay ), so you expect more of it.
Not sure, I didn't find HotS gameplay any less crappier than RotHC. Just spam Zerglings, hydralisks and roaches with debilitating upgrade to win (I did beat almost everything with that combo), or just lolsmash smaller armies with Kerrigan. However, it is possible we do not have the same deifinition of word "crappy".
And as for SWTOR being basically WoW, I could just as easily argument that WoW is just like Everquest and games that came before it. The model is good, players are used to it, and any other game that tried to deviate from it usually failed pretty hard.

Quote:
You also expect more of it because it's an MMO that you pay a sub for. Yes, the sub is still a factor when it comes to expansion content/pricing, because the content needs to keep you entertained until they can release more.
Sub is not required for full enjoyment RotHC (minus SaV), you can only pay once and then play, just like in any game with expansion pack

However, to sum it up, yes, MMOs are different from non-MMOs, all I wanted to point out is that we got a huge load of content for 10 dollars, and that many other expansion packs often do not offer as much content for even higher prices.
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LasherC's Avatar


LasherC
04.19.2013 , 07:25 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
Yes, SC2/CoD has multiplayer, but then again, SWTOR has PvP, which is basically the same thing, just apply strategies that will make sure your race (or class in SWTOR) will beat other races (classes), adapt to what they do, and repeat that ad nauseum.
Granted. However, in the case of SWTOR, and other MMOs, pvp is a smaller part of the game compared to mp in sc2, cod or cs:go. Hell, in cs:go and cod multiplayer IS the game ( I seriously question anyone that buys cod for the singleplayer, it's awful ), and in the case of sc2 it's probably more than 50 % of the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
Not sure, I didn't find HotS gameplay any less crappier than RotHC. Just spam Zerglings, hydralisks and roaches with debilitating upgrade to win (I did beat almost everything with that combo), or just lolsmash smaller armies with Kerrigan. However, it is possible we do not have the same deifinition of word "crappy".
I think that's the case, yes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
And as for SWTOR being basically WoW, I could just as easily argument that WoW is just like Everquest and games that came before it. The model is good, players are used to it, and any other game that tried to deviate from it usually failed pretty hard.
I used WoW because it's the most known, however, if you want to go even earlier than that, it only helps my argument, since my point is that it's old and outdated.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
Sub is not required for full enjoyment RotHC (minus SaV), you can only pay once and then play, just like in any game with expansion pack
Granted, but in that case we're talking about 20$, not 10$. Not to mention that the expansion still needs to be designed with subscribers in mind, since that's what Bioware seems to be aiming for, get as many ppl to subscribe as possible.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
However, to sum it up, yes, MMOs are different from non-MMOs, all I wanted to point out is that we got a huge load of content for 10 dollars, and that many other expansion packs often do not offer as much content for even higher prices.
I agree with everything, except the " huge " part. Personally, I feel it was an appropriate amount of content. I don't feel like I got ripped off, but it doesn't feel like a great deal either.

Alavastre's Avatar


Alavastre
04.19.2013 , 07:48 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Soluss View Post
IMO, I dont think we ever will. It took them an entire year to bring this to us. They just dont have the staffing to do a large expansion. If you see them start hiring a bunch of people then maybe but this is EA. They dont hire people, they fire them.
You're missing a huge point here. They spend at least a half a year moving to F2P which was a massive undertaking. Conditions have changed since then, so you cannot extrapolate that time going forward.
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

Nemmar's Avatar


Nemmar
04.19.2013 , 07:57 AM | #37
I'm pretty sure the digital expansion was a test. This test beeing sucessful, they are more likely to make a proper expansion. Something i would love aswell.

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
04.19.2013 , 03:44 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by SpearlikeAtom View Post
Or have their parent company provide more funding like Blizzard has.
I was talking about EA. EA is the one that funds/produces the game, not Bioware. Bioware Austin develops the game, but the majority of the funding comes from EA. Alot of the money Bioware makes in the end is going to pay their staff. Alot of people forget that part or never think about it, ie there's a group of people that are all getting to paid to work on the game and that money made from the game is used to pay their salaries.

So now explain this, why would EA put money into the game that they know they won't/can't make back? EA has all the statistics of how many people play the game, how many are subs vs F2P, what the Cartel Market is earning, etc. Those figures don't reflect a situation where EA is going to dump alot of money into the future of the game.

For instance let's say a full on expansion cost $50 million to produce. A million players would need to purchase the expansion at a price tag of $50 just for it to break even. Now imagine that TOR's player base is a million players. That would mean that even if all 100% of TOR's player base bought the expansion (which would never happen - WoW doesn't even have that success rate) it wouldn't be enough to turn a profit.

^That is the situation that TOR is in right now. It does not have the numbers it needs for someone like EA to pour a bunch of money into it. It's different when a game is in development because then it's all about potential, but after it releases you then have hard numbers that get used to weigh decisions.

Why would you think EA would pour more money into TOR when it never achieved what they wanted it to? Don't say you gotta spend money to make money because in their eyes they've already spent over 300 million on this game and were expecting it to make billions.

Korusus's Avatar


Korusus
04.19.2013 , 04:51 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
I was talking about EA. EA is the one that funds/produces the game, not Bioware. Bioware Austin develops the game, but the majority of the funding comes from EA. Alot of the money Bioware makes in the end is going to pay their staff. Alot of people forget that part or never think about it, ie there's a group of people that are all getting to paid to work on the game and that money made from the game is used to pay their salaries.

So now explain this, why would EA put money into the game that they know they won't/can't make back? EA has all the statistics of how many people play the game, how many are subs vs F2P, what the Cartel Market is earning, etc. Those figures don't reflect a situation where EA is going to dump alot of money into the future of the game.

For instance let's say a full on expansion cost $50 million to produce. A million players would need to purchase the expansion at a price tag of $50 just for it to break even. Now imagine that TOR's player base is a million players. That would mean that even if all 100% of TOR's player base bought the expansion (which would never happen - WoW doesn't even have that success rate) it wouldn't be enough to turn a profit.

^That is the situation that TOR is in right now. It does not have the numbers it needs for someone like EA to pour a bunch of money into it. It's different when a game is in development because then it's all about potential, but after it releases you then have hard numbers that get used to weigh decisions.

Why would you think EA would pour more money into TOR when it never achieved what they wanted it to? Don't say you gotta spend money to make money because in their eyes they've already spent over 300 million on this game and were expecting it to make billions.
A few things:

1) BioWare Austin is EA

2) Any business that figures their price to cost ratio in that way deserves to go out of business, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that BioWare develop a $50 million expansion (which is more than almost every videogame ever developed). I'm assuming you arrived at that number based on speculation concerning SWTOR's development budget (which is speculation, that's never been publicly revealed) which EA has admitted got eaten up by the cost of the engine which is a sunk cost at this point, so I'm not sure where you got $50 million from.

3) Developing an expansion is a way of recouping those initial developments costs as long as it is budgeted for in the profit margin.

Xcontentia's Avatar


Xcontentia
04.19.2013 , 04:57 PM | #40
"Real Expansion" oh rly. Like pandas? I rather take my binoculars anytime.