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Ready Check not usefull for tanks atm


Fastdoze's Avatar


Fastdoze
04.03.2013 , 07:25 AM | #61
Honestly, if the tank appears to know what they're doing, then just give them lead, let them decide to use /RC or not at their own discretion, and let them lead the party, if they dont appear to know anything of what they're doing, maybe take the reins after asking if they have been in a particular instance before.

I hate it when I am tanking and as I know most instances like the back of my hand when someone else decides to aggro an extra mob. As the pace I set is as fast as it takes to Sprint and kill a mob, cant go any faster unless healer is down on energy/power, but no RC should not be needed for fp, or other regular HMs, but the tank, if they appear decent should always be the one to decide if its necessary to use or not. Only time I would use it in any fp HM is LI HM if a pug admits to not having been before, i might use it on a couple trash pulls that cause a lot stuns just prior to robot boss which I use it for, but as a rule it should only be used in operations, with very little exception. That exception should only be necessary with an ignorant pug, or in a pug group you're not convinced of their skill for a boss that can cause potential wipes such as LI HM robot boss, though with a half decent geared coordinated group, LI HM has always been childs play to tank/heal/dps.

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
04.03.2013 , 07:41 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
I would absolutely vote kick a tank who insisted on using ready check for every single pull, especially since I would make an attempt to politely explain first why it's not needed.
Would you also vote kick the DPS or healer who insists on using it for every pull just because they randomly got assigned to be group "leader?"

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
04.03.2013 , 07:46 AM | #63
PUG tanks have been using r? in chat for ages to make sure they don't start a boss fight in an FP before everyone is present and ready. They finally added a sleek little UI feature that is simple, quick, and does exactly the same thing. There is nothing wrong with tweaking it so that the team member slotted into the tank role (or any member of the group, if that's easier) always has access to it, regardless of the random "group leader" assignment. It would allow the feature to be reasonably used to do exactly what it is is designed for.

namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
04.03.2013 , 10:17 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
Would you also vote kick the DPS or healer who insists on using it for every pull just because they randomly got assigned to be group "leader?"
Yup, but if this idea gets implemented it would only be the tanks that could. I think the point is, being a tank doesn't make you immune to being kicked if you're a tool.

It looks like there a couple groups arguing here: the people who just don't want to be slowed down in FPs vs the ones who prefer fully rest between every pull, the people who are sick of bad tanks thinking whatever they say goes (because they have shorter GF queues than dps and healers) vs those tanks, and the people who just want to troll everyone vs, well, everyone.

In a GF flashpoint everyone should be able to ready check, not just the tank. Since that's not how it works, if the group seems to be one where RC would be useful, whenever the leader (whoever it is) is ready they should start a ready check. The tank saying they're ready to pull and then asking everyone else if they are too is functionally the same as a dps doing the same thing. If I'm tanking and good to go, I'll ask if everyone is ready. If I'm healing and good to go, I'll do the same. I think the problem isn't the role of the person initiating a ready check, it's people being scared to say or do anything first in a group, because they're afraid they'll mess up or irritate someone and get kicked.
Smugglin

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
04.03.2013 , 10:28 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by namesaretough View Post
It looks like there a couple groups arguing here
There are a couple of groups. Those who are posting on topic and those who are just belching and moaning about a whole raft of crap that has nothing to do with the OP.

Blabbering on and on about all the ways someone can misuse a feature or suck at their role has nothing to do with the original suggestion, which was just that a plainly useful feature should be useable at a minimum by the player in the group most likely to have a use for it, or as an alternative by everyone in a 4-man group, not just the randomly assigned "leader," who most times won't care or even realize they have the "lead."

Wolvereen's Avatar


Wolvereen
04.03.2013 , 11:33 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
PUG tanks have been using r? in chat for ages to make sure they don't start a boss fight in an FP before everyone is present and ready. They finally added a sleek little UI feature that is simple, quick, and does exactly the same thing. There is nothing wrong with tweaking it so that the team member slotted into the tank role (or any member of the group, if that's easier) always has access to it, regardless of the random "group leader" assignment. It would allow the feature to be reasonably used to do exactly what it is is designed for.
That's it^^
I think Bioware will unlock the RC for the whole group sooner or later!
Meanwhile i'll use the good old "ready?" if necessary

W

slafko's Avatar


slafko
04.04.2013 , 12:27 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by WarCan View Post
However, no matter what your role, you need to be sure that everyone is HERE and TOPPED OFF (on health and energy) before you hit the next group.
Now you're just being silly. Please stop writing stuff like this, it makes the new players not evolve and it ends up hurting the rest of the playerbase.

JFTR: No, you don't need to be at max health, energy, ammo in order to attack the next group.

Quote: Originally Posted by Fastdoze View Post
I hate it when I am tanking and as I know most instances like the back of my hand when someone else decides to aggro an extra mob.
I ignore it and let them deal with it. Especially if I have already passed by that mob by hugging a wall. If I can do it, so can everyone else - but if you aggro, you tank.


The point is - we don't need /rc in flashpoints. All everyone has to do and, hopefully, has been doing for the past year is checking the party screen to see the health and energy of their team members. If everyone's above 80%, you're good to go. You'll regenerate on the way to the next pull.

steave's Avatar


steave
04.04.2013 , 03:41 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by WarCan View Post
Since tanks need to attack FIRST, they are expected to set the pace and decide WHEN to attack, thus ... LEAD.
That is not the same thing. The guy assigning CCs and kill order, or handle other matters (such as making sure the new guy is keeping up and knows what to do) when needed is the leader, since those are actual decisions rather than just moving along. Granted, those are usually not needed, thus why most pug groups don't have a leader at all.

sripakdee's Avatar


sripakdee
04.04.2013 , 08:05 AM | #69
What i find really interesting in this thread is that so many fail to realize the difference between taking point and being the leader.

Yes the tank are expected to set the pace and when to pull and ****. that does NOT make them the leader, that makes them the one people expect to take point. Being a leader is SO much more than having the "title" of leader in ops or fp or whatnot (which, lets face it, means absolutely NOTHING unless its content that's actually require a leader).

Being the leader in a Pug HMFP would mean knowing the tactics, assigning cc when needed and stuff like that. Do the tank need to do that? no, they really don't. Anyone with the knowhow can do that. I usually take leadership when im doing hmfp and pug ops. Why? is it because im a tank? No. my main class is not a tank. I take leadership when its required, because i know the tactics, and i know how to explain then and i know my classes and whats expected of all the roles in the op, in short, i know how to lead (being as leader is more than what i just stated, but for the purpose of this discussion it will have to due).

In ops. just because your a tank, does that require you to be leader? No it does not. Do the tank need to know tactics for the ops? Well yes, its practical, but not strictly necessarily, as long as someone know the relevant tactics and are able to explain them (this would be the case for all classes).

So who gets to be lead? In guild group, thats a given. The ops leader is the one appointed by the guildmaster (that hopefully is the one most suited for it) be it healer, tank or dps. what about Pug groups? again, its the one most suited for the task.

So is the tank the automatic leader? NO they are not. I repeat, its the one most suited for the task that should be leader. The tank may be that one. but it may very well be someone else.

Please realize the difference between taking point and leading.

So for the question of Ready check being useful for tanks or not. A ready check can be initiated by the one that have lead (and in the case of ops, also the ones that have assistant lead). For tanks to get this ability by default (like some have suggested) is downright stupid. Not to mention arrogant, because that tell us that the people suggest that draw the conclusion they are most suited to lead BECAUSE they are the tank. As ive argued above, I think thats stupid.

However, yes it might be a good idea to give every member of a fp group to be able to initiate a ready check, i would not know, since there is not enough for me to draw a conclusion on that question. A personal opinion would however say that the risk of abuse far outweigh the potential gain.

Also, i would like to state. Being able to use a ready check also does NOT make you the leader, it just make you able to use a command that, when abused, will endlessly annoy quite a few people, me included.
Guildmaster of Exit Area @ The Red Eclipse

NrDLeipe's Avatar


NrDLeipe
04.04.2013 , 11:31 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by sripakdee View Post

However, yes it might be a good idea to give every member of a fp group to be able to initiate a ready check, i would not know, since there is not enough for me to draw a conclusion on that question. A personal opinion would however say that the risk of abuse far outweigh the potential gain.

Also, i would like to state. Being able to use a ready check also does NOT make you the leader, it just make you able to use a command that, when abused, will endlessly annoy quite a few people, me included.
This is "stupid" you want the whole grp to be able to do a rdy check, talking about pointless rcs. theres always a clown who think its funny to use it on moments were you gonna think, ***....

And if i give leader to a no tank class, how can he know how the tank is gonna pull and what to cc???
Some tanks use pull, some use a knockback to grp a few together etc, no way that the other class leader knows what the tank is gonna do, so ye he needs lead or atleast assistant, ye i can see good points about the tactics etc but to be fair if i look at the dps in pugs most of them have a dffrent mindset then a tank they see damage but not the surrounding, a decent tank has scanned the surrounding makes a tactic and pulls, without the lead/assistant his tactic is gone. ( marking )

The way i see it a tank should have enough knowhow to be a leader, interupts,cc,tactics etc... if not then he nees to learn alot still ( then ye he shouldnt have lead or maybe just to learn how to use marks etc ) or the guy just sucks bad and shouldnt run at all
The wrath of the empire knows no bounds
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