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Crew Skills needs improving

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Crew Skills needs improving

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
03.29.2013 , 08:54 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Trushott View Post
I agree with only one thing about this post... 2.0 is bad for crafters really bad since they will be MAKING crafters raid for BIS items which is terrible design to not allow crafters to make any BIS items any longer

,,,,,,,,

The only thing as I said that 2.0 will destroy is the ability of crafters to create any BIS items and if you desire them then you MUST raid which as I stated is a mistake a pis-poor design flaw that the deva will end up regretting as it will piss crafters off and people who like to play and never set foot in the hardest raids in games which I am pretty sure makes up a giant portion of the player base in relation to hardcore raiders
There are only two ways to get BIS schematics and they are to raid and re or buy someone else's item and re.

I never warmed up to the buy and re route. RE is luck based and nothing else and I very often go 20+ attempts to re a 20% item. So I have no desire to put 20M+ credits on the table through buying 1M items to try to obtain one level 27 schematic and hence be able to craft one BiS mod or armoring. I know some people do re the BIS stuff for the schematic and some are very lucky and get a hit early on in the process, but the possibility of getting badly burned is to strong for the non gamblers among us.

Whether or not you agree with the premise that raiders deserve the best gear in the game, the change will restrict the best gear to them. To get it you will have to be a member of a guild and on a raid team. Guild members will not get BIS gear craftted by their brothers and sisters, they will have to earn it. A rich player like me will not get BIS gear because I do not raid.

I don't agree with the premise and will never have bis gear because I don't raid, but that is the route that BW has chosen and there seems to be no desire to give non raiders the ability to much progress after reaching cap. I think that is the flaw and it is an overall design issue and not just a craftng issue. It, in essence, tells players that hit cap and do not raid to either roll an alt or go find something else to play because you are done and there is nothing else here for you. Not a lot there for pvp, RP, causual, etc. players and from what I have read raiders (especially hard core) are a small fraction of the player base. That never made sense to me in a business that is most profitable and viable through retaining customers.

I would like to see a number of routes to bis gear one of which is crafting, but I do not see that light being lit in BW design land.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.29.2013 , 09:13 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Wizard_Thoarin View Post
You do know that if you hover your mouse over the sales price it will show you the price per unit don't you? I go through the list and check the price per unit each time the quantity for sale changes and I hover over the sales price with my mouse to get the per unit sales price. I find the best deals that way. However, I still find the prices way out of line and only use it when I don't have or want to make the time to get the raw materials myself.
I guess you missed:
Quote:
But the only way to find the "good deals" is to mouse over EVERY single listing to get the price per unit.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.29.2013 , 10:29 AM | #23
@asbalana,

I get that you wish there were multiple paths to obtain top-level gear. And I realize what I'm about to ask is perhaps a tired argument, but I'm curious as to your reasons.

In my estimation, the only thing BiS gear does it let you do the very hardest ops. On the PTS, I ran Dailies and level 55 HM FPs wearing full Arkanian and everything was boringly easy in that gear. Had I been wearing optimized BiS Underworld it would have been a joke. In 2.0, there is no non-Operation content requiring full 69 gear, let alone BiS 72 gear.

So. If you aren't going to do raids, why do you need the BiS?

Mind you, I'm not saying you shouldn't have it unless you raid. I don't really care. But way back when Rakata was top-dog in gearland, and I wasn't doing raiding, I figured I wasn't going to get Rakata. It didn't bother me because I figured that's how the game worked.

So I've never quite grasped the reasoning behind wanting BiS gear for some other reason than to raid. Do dailies faster? Something else?

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
03.29.2013 , 11:10 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
@asbalana,

I get that you wish there were multiple paths to obtain top-level gear. And I realize what I'm about to ask is perhaps a tired argument, but I'm curious as to your reasons.

In my estimation, the only thing BiS gear does it let you do the very hardest ops. On the PTS, I ran Dailies and level 55 HM FPs wearing full Arkanian and everything was boringly easy in that gear. Had I been wearing optimized BiS Underworld it would have been a joke. In 2.0, there is no non-Operation content requiring full 69 gear, let alone BiS 72 gear.

So. If you aren't going to do raids, why do you need the BiS?

Mind you, I'm not saying you shouldn't have it unless you raid. I don't really care. But way back when Rakata was top-dog in gearland, and I wasn't doing raiding, I figured I wasn't going to get Rakata. It didn't bother me because I figured that's how the game worked.

So I've never quite grasped the reasoning behind wanting BiS gear for some other reason than to raid. Do dailies faster? Something else?
Good afternoon.

Your question is a fair one and has been asked and answered (lol, with many different subjective responses) since the advent of raiding, not in swtor, but other games.

The answer is simple, what one needs and what one wants are entirely two different things.

I agree with your comment that BIS gear makes all non raiding content trivial and to many not worth doing. When I run dailies they are somewhat still a challenge, but I often see people running in top level raid gear and just sleepwalking through. They get the loot quickly but no real gaming experience (fun). I have purposely not bought level 27 mods, armorings, etc. because they are indeed of no use to me since I do not raid.

But that said, my neighbor owns a BMW that can do almost double the freeway speed limit. He mostly drives the car in town and stays under the 35 mph speed limit. I eat steak when hamburger will provide the same nutrition and perhaps on a toasted bun with garnish taste as good. The couple down the street live in a five bedroom house although their children are married and long gone. I could go on, but the point is that it is human nature to strive for the best although they do not need anything close.

So their is no reasoning, only desire. There is also the concept of limitations. I have no path to progres and grow if I so want. I put as much time and effort and play into the game as a raider, but I will never reap half the rewards. Yes, you can argue, as many have, that raiding is much harder and more demanding so should provide greater return, but to me that is just the way games are designed and not a fact of nature or the way they have to be. It also does not speak to raids on farm which are a walk through. Although it is likely that there has been enough written in response to your question, I will give not the last but one final reason for wanting the ability to obtain and craft BIS gear. That is, those who cannot are relegated to being second class in most ways in the game. The have poorer gear and as we have seen here much less oppertunity to quickly earn big credits (or gold or whatever depending on the game).

In the end I have only seen two arguments against players who do not raid getting bis gear and they are 1. you haven't earned it and 2. you don't need it. These are usually coupled with insults such as "entitlement". And one argument in favor of players getting bis gear and that is, I want it. It all boils down to that no matter how stated.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.29.2013 , 11:51 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
...

In the end I have only seen two arguments against players who do not raid getting bis gear and they are 1. you haven't earned it and 2. you don't need it. These are usually coupled with insults such as "entitlement". And one argument in favor of players getting bis gear and that is, I want it. It all boils down to that no matter how stated.
Thanks for the answer. I appreciate it as it is blunt and straightforward.

Again, I actually have no argument with this, and have no personal desire to prevent someone else from having gear. How someone obtained their gear doesn't affect my personal gaming experience one bit. Don't care.

On the other hand, when I was in a similar boat, it resulted in me wanting to raid and do operations, which resulted in me finding a group of like-minded people, which resulted in me coming back to the game week after week. So I find it hard to relate to complaints about this situation.

JMCH's Avatar


JMCH
03.29.2013 , 09:31 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
So I've never quite grasped the reasoning behind wanting BiS gear for some other reason than to raid. Do dailies faster? Something else?
Raid with 7-6-5-4 people? Check.

Raid with undergeared/unskilled people to see sparks in their eyes? Check. (and, in fact, the situation I was right before 2.0 was put on the PTS... my goal was to show content to some guildies and try to have them getting better)

Attempt any kind of world-boss or non-raid group content in limited group size? Check.

Sick of this "Raid is the only end-game" mentality, especially considering there are really no "raids" in swtor, it's some 8/16-man instances with weekly locks... Compare that to dragons' raids in DAoC, where "progression" was actually being able to take them down with less people, allowing for more chance to win some shiny loots. How, just how could this game have had 200k+ subs for a 3-year period and SWTOR seems to not even have that 15 months past launch, while everyone and his grandma has at least ADSL? The answer isn't "WoW". The answer to the opposite question could somewhat be "WoW", though...

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.29.2013 , 10:58 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by JMCH View Post
...

Sick of this "Raid is the only end-game" mentality, especially considering there are really no "raids" in swtor, it's some 8/16-man instances with weekly locks...
Sounding a bit harsh, dude. I don't have the "Raid is the only end-game mentality" (Unless I misunderstood, and that comment wasn't directed at me.)

I was actually genuinely curious, which is why I asked.

Most of the examples you gave of things to do besides end-game operations are all group activities, not solo activities. Wouldn't that mean that you will already have the ability to obtain grade 72 gear?

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
03.30.2013 , 08:23 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I was actually genuinely curious, which is why I asked.
I saw that in your question to me. It was politely stated and well worth my best answer.

There is a new game about ready to go into beta that is based on a major single player title. I don't know if it will be any good or not, but there is a lot of interest in it. After SWTOR, my feeling has been to not believe any of the hype but to let a game launch and then take a close look at feedback and players opinion before I try it. One thing though has caught my eye and sparked some interest. The game will have no raiding at all. Rather there will be a progressively harder method of advancement at cap in which ad hoc grouping will be the rule and all benefis will be equally shared. There will be a path for solo players as well. I have great interest to see what will be done and how things will work.

Although some players do have a raid or die mentality (not saying that you do), clearly game designers and devs have no clue as to what to do with their games at cap and fall into the WOW practice of offering raidsand dungeons and little else. I have always found that interesting because the vast majority of players do not regularly raid.

EagleRaale's Avatar


EagleRaale
04.01.2013 , 08:41 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
I saw that in your question to me. It was politely stated and well worth my best answer.

There is a new game about ready to go into beta that is based on a major single player title. I don't know if it will be any good or not, but there is a lot of interest in it. After SWTOR, my feeling has been to not believe any of the hype but to let a game launch and then take a close look at feedback and players opinion before I try it. One thing though has caught my eye and sparked some interest. The game will have no raiding at all. Rather there will be a progressively harder method of advancement at cap in which ad hoc grouping will be the rule and all benefis will be equally shared. There will be a path for solo players as well. I have great interest to see what will be done and how things will work.

Although some players do have a raid or die mentality (not saying that you do), clearly game designers and devs have no clue as to what to do with their games at cap and fall into the WOW practice of offering raidsand dungeons and little else. I have always found that interesting because the vast majority of players do not regularly raid.
What new game are you referring to? Is it Neverwinter? When I last looked up Neverwinter, there was very little information about that game. Unless there's another game?

oosah's Avatar


oosah
04.01.2013 , 10:18 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleRaale View Post
What new game are you referring to? Is it Neverwinter? When I last looked up Neverwinter, there was very little information about that game. Unless there's another game?
I believe he is talking about Elder Scrolls Online. I do not know if the devs will go nazi on me for writing that name out, or how harsh they are about listing other games as i do not regularly post, but meh whatever ill take the chance!