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Crew Skills needs improving

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Crew Skills needs improving

EagleRaale's Avatar


EagleRaale
03.20.2013 , 11:31 PM | #1
I've been playing this game for almost a month now, and this game seems very interesting. The story lines is amazing and I enjoy them. However, I've spent more time working on my crew skills than I am playing the story line. Having to spend a few days every 4 levels is just insane. And it's a turn off when I'm constantly trying to gather. I'm the kind of player that loves to craft stuff that the game has to offer, especially to craft my own gears for me to use based on the level I'm at. but I'm extremely disappointed with how long it takes to gather materials to keep making the same stuff over to reverse engineer to get to the better stuff and having to repeat it based on the low research odds.

Now I'm level 25 and the odds of reverse engineering have even been made more difficult to where I've made over 40 of the same type of gun and reverse engineering with not even 1 successful new schematics. Comparing this game to the others I've played, craftings in this game is way too time consuming to the point that there's no point in grinding away in this game and I can just find another game worthy of my time, mind you though, I'm a subscriber, which tells you one thing that I'm a fair guy that likes to support the game developers. But not when I'm faced with this insane time sink that. I can understand when this would be something for the max level gears as it would seem likely for it, but not for a leveling character trying to make equipments he/she can use at their current level.

So, I'm seriously hoping that the developers would look into improving how the craftings are done while leveling up, so that it's actually enjoyable to craft our own stuff as we level up and not spend so much time working on our crew skills. After all, we'll be out leveling out gears every 4 levels. So, no reason why it shouldn't be a time sink in crew skills as we level up, especially when we pay to play the game to support it.

Afterall, this is a game that is declining in paying players and this might be part of the reason for people losing interests in this game.

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
03.21.2013 , 07:37 AM | #2
There is some truth in what you are saying.

The system rewards the long term player very well. After a while and after leveling a number of alts, you come the point where you have a reasonably full book of recipies and can quickly craft just about anything that you need and you can craft (and gather mats through missions) items for sale on the GTN and make a ton of loot.

There are indeed a number of things that can be done to improve crafting. One obvious problem / frustration is, as you have identified, the all to frequent long runs of rng RE fails. Crafting works well while leveling toons and is a way to keep them well geared as you progress. To me the larger problem with crafting mirrors the game in general and that is once you hit cap crafting is of no use to you other than making credites. There are a few who can craft mods, armorings, barrels, etc. that are viable post cap. but they are either raiders (not crafters but raiders that craft) or people who have been lucky and REed someone elses product that they bought on the GTN. So like other parts of the game, crafting hits a wall and much ends at 50 (soon to be hits a wall at 55.

I would not look for many if any changes or improvements in the crafting system.

EagleRaale's Avatar


EagleRaale
03.25.2013 , 01:49 PM | #3
Well, for starters, they can take out many of the purple items that comes from craftings, the purples should only be at the high level stuff, with an occasional purple every 10 level or so. purple quality gears are suppose to be rare to have, and yet, there's way more purples than there are for blues and greens. For every green item, there's 3 blues, and then there's 14 purple items for every green item. That doesn't to make sense. Purple quality crafted items is meant to be a time sink for at the end game stuff, not for leveling up a character. So, either they remove the level 9-40 purples from crafting, or increase the odds of reverse engineering to get these purples to reduce the time sink at those lower level, considering that a character would need new gears every 4 levels.

So far, I've been working on Armstech and starting Cybertech, I've been noticing all the adaptive clothing items from the Cartel market and on GTN, I can't help but wonder about the Armortech if that's a dead profession due to a huge number of Cartel clothing items. I get the feeling that crafting is a thing of the past with this game since this game went F2P along with the implementation of Cartel market as a source of income. Really, Cartel items should not be competing or killing off a vital part of the game, to which crafting is what helps make the game fun as it adds a variety of gameplay.

Also from seeing some of the post that mentions endgame craftings BIS items will be removed with the release of the expansion to encourage people to raid more for the dropped BIS items. However I believe that with experience with other games that endgame craftings BIS items can still be done, however, add the required ingredients that drops from endgame raid bosses, so then people will still need to raid to before being able to craft BIS items.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.25.2013 , 02:42 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleRaale View Post
Well, for starters, they can take out many of the purple items that comes from craftings, the purples should only be at the high level stuff, with an occasional purple every 10 level or so. purple quality gears are suppose to be rare to have, and yet, there's way more purples than there are for blues and greens. For every green item, there's 3 blues, and then there's 14 purple items for every green item. That doesn't to make sense. Purple quality crafted items is meant to be a time sink for at the end game stuff, not for leveling up a character. So, either they remove the level 9-40 purples from crafting, or increase the odds of reverse engineering to get these purples to reduce the time sink at those lower level, considering that a character would need new gears every 4 levels.

So far, I've been working on Armstech and starting Cybertech, I've been noticing all the adaptive clothing items from the Cartel market and on GTN, I can't help but wonder about the Armortech if that's a dead profession due to a huge number of Cartel clothing items. I get the feeling that crafting is a thing of the past with this game since this game went F2P along with the implementation of Cartel market as a source of income. Really, Cartel items should not be competing or killing off a vital part of the game, to which crafting is what helps make the game fun as it adds a variety of gameplay.

Also from seeing some of the post that mentions endgame craftings BIS items will be removed with the release of the expansion to encourage people to raid more for the dropped BIS items. However I believe that with experience with other games that endgame craftings BIS items can still be done, however, add the required ingredients that drops from endgame raid bosses, so then people will still need to raid to before being able to craft BIS items.
You are right in that purple quality items should be a luxury not a requirement. But removal of purple schematics from 1-48 is extreme. I, like many other players, have the time and credits to get those purple quality schematics. Why should my/our alts not get purple quality gear if we have the spare time and/or credits to make it happen? All it does is make leveling a little easier and it is a viable alternative to buying the stuff off the GTM.

Lastly, Armormech and Synthweaving are not dead crew skills...It's all about the augments and augmentation kits. I have made millions (by no stretch overnight) just making blue quality augments. No MMO I have ever played has had a crafting profession/skill where ALL possible crafted items are universally desired and therefore valuable. There are three things you need to deal with:

1) You have to find out what sells and focus on that. Just because a large portion of a crew skill's items do not sell does not mean the entire crew skill is worthless.
2) You also have to have patience - sometimes the items you craft are not worth as much as you would like, you just have to have patience and wait out the slump, value will increase eventually. And if, by some off chance, it doesn't you may have to either lower your expectations or find another item to craft and sell. Further, you should NEVER put all your eggs in one basket: if you have ten items that sell regularly and one slumps, it's not such a big deal to wait out that slump.
3) Most importantly, the big ticket items are not always the best for making consistent and persistent income. Those big ticket items are no better than "get rich quick schemes." Sure, some players have been able to take advantage, but they are a miniscule fraction of the seller population. As I stated earlier, blue quality augments sell REALLY well and for very good profit margin. Same thing for cybertech and artifice stuff.

Wizard_Thoarin's Avatar


Wizard_Thoarin
03.26.2013 , 07:35 AM | #5
The only thing I'd like to see is an increase in the amount of raw materials rewarded for the harvesting and rare materials missions. Moderate missions rewarding a whole 2 raw materials (maybe 4 if you crit) is kind of pointless and its not much better for the Abundant to Rich missions either. You could easily multiply the number of returned raw materials by 5 or 10 so crafters have a chance to get enough raw materials to craft. It would probably help out by lowering the cost of those raw materials on the GTN also.
Wizards First Rule: People are Stupid

psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.26.2013 , 08:21 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Wizard_Thoarin View Post
The only thing I'd like to see is an increase in the amount of raw materials rewarded for the harvesting and rare materials missions. Moderate missions rewarding a whole 2 raw materials (maybe 4 if you crit) is kind of pointless and its not much better for the Abundant to Rich missions either. You could easily multiply the number of returned raw materials by 5 or 10 so crafters have a chance to get enough raw materials to craft. It would probably help out by lowering the cost of those raw materials on the GTN also.
I agree and disagree...

I disagree with your assessment of material values on the GTM. The high level prototype/blue materials markets are already flooded because so many players are looking for the artifact/purple quality materials from missions; players literally have thousands of prototype quality grade 6 materials and therefore their value is greatly diminished. But I am OK with this, for the simple fact that I focus my crafting on the blue quality items . Lower level materials are in lower supply because not enough players focus on them. This is a player population issue not a game mechanics issue, and trying to "fix" a player population issue with game mechanics will ultimately fail.

I do agree though that the moderate missions are effectively worthless because even with a crit, the return is barely worth the investment. That being said, they are useful when leveling a gathering or mission crew skill - they are the first missions to open when a new grade/level is reached, and are cheaper to run than anything else listed.

asbalana's Avatar


asbalana
03.26.2013 , 08:55 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
I agree and disagree...

I do agree though that the moderate missions are effectively worthless because even with a crit, the return is barely worth the investment. That being said, they are useful when leveling a gathering or mission crew skill - they are the first missions to open when a new grade/level is reached, and are cheaper to run than anything else listed.
Very true.

I try to run only bountiful or rich missions. The one exeption is when I have no missions left to run on those levels and still have companions to send out. For example, if I send everyone out of rich and bountiful UT missions and still have a companion left and there is a level 3 UT moderate mission on the table, I will run it. A few xonolite is still worth much more than the cost of running the mission, so it is no lose.

EagleRaale's Avatar


EagleRaale
03.26.2013 , 05:45 PM | #8
Yes, I agree with the resources gathered from missions are awfully pitiful. That was one of the other issues with the crew skills that are time consuming. Having to gather up enough materials just to try craft stuff for reverse engineering only to constantly fail to learn a new schematic is truly frustrated as a low level player trying to tap into the better quality gears, especially as a new player. I'm almost at the point of not bothering to continue with this game and find a game that's worthy of my time with a good story line such as this, but a more balanced crafting system that isn't extremely time consuming, especially when leveling up. World of Warcraft has an excellent crafting system and should be looked at, however with WoW, the heroic raids/dungeons is what kills the gaming mood. Star Trek Online lacks the game play and strategy on top of a weak crafting system. If this game were to model their crafting system after World of Warcraft, this game would surely draw in more players and retain them, because the story line for each classes are unique and entertaining, and having a balanced crafting system will ensure this game remains enjoyable. I'm the kind of guy that likes to take advantage of everything a game has to offer and I love crafting stuff for me to use, and trying to find a source of income to support my characters.

The other thing I'm noticing is that as my current highest character is level 25, with crafting of like 225ish, the list of the things I can make is getting way too long with all the blues and purples that is being discovered from reverse engineering. Too many purple items especially for leveling up. I fail to see the need to have that many purples, which defeats the purpose of calling the purples as a hard to get rare items if there's 14 different purples for every green item you can make.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
03.26.2013 , 06:42 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleRaale View Post
Yes, I agree with the resources gathered from missions are awfully pitiful. That was one of the other issues with the crew skills that are time consuming. Having to gather up enough materials just to try craft stuff for reverse engineering only to constantly fail to learn a new schematic is truly frustrated as a low level player trying to tap into the better quality gears, especially as a new player. I'm almost at the point of not bothering to continue with this game and find a game that's worthy of my time with a good story line such as this, but a more balanced crafting system that isn't extremely time consuming, especially when leveling up. World of Warcraft has an excellent crafting system and should be looked at, however with WoW, the heroic raids/dungeons is what kills the gaming mood. Star Trek Online lacks the game play and strategy on top of a weak crafting system. If this game were to model their crafting system after World of Warcraft, this game would surely draw in more players and retain them, because the story line for each classes are unique and entertaining, and having a balanced crafting system will ensure this game remains enjoyable. I'm the kind of guy that likes to take advantage of everything a game has to offer and I love crafting stuff for me to use, and trying to find a source of income to support my characters.

The other thing I'm noticing is that as my current highest character is level 25, with crafting of like 225ish, the list of the things I can make is getting way too long with all the blues and purples that is being discovered from reverse engineering. Too many purple items especially for leveling up. I fail to see the need to have that many purples, which defeats the purpose of calling the purples as a hard to get rare items if there's 14 different purples for every green item you can make.
I hate to say this, but maybe you are trying too hard to get the EXACT schematic you want when reverse engineering. And I repeat from other threads, there is a lot of "a watched pot never boils" syndrome going on - the more you want something to happen the less likely it seems to be happening. If you hit level 29 and only then start crafting level 29 gear chances are you are going to antsy when the REs procs don't happen.

When I first seriously started playing this game (about three months after launch), I leveled a Jedi Knight with Synthweaving, Archeology, and Underworld Trading. By doing missions rather than depending on gathering, I was always crafting greens that were a couple of levels above where my character was. Further, I would craft ten greens and RE them and whatever blue(s) I got, I would (pick one) craft those and RE those for purples and I would be satisfied with any purple I got and I would craft one of them and have it waiting for me when I reached the required level. The only consequence of working my crew skills this way was that I was no able to purchase speeder piloting II and III right away (and they were MUCH more expensive back then).

The point is that if you focus on the ONE artifact quality stat set that you REALLY want, you will invariably be disappointed. But if you accept the fact that, while leveling, specific stats are not that important because you will relatively quickly get something better, and being fully optimized is not practical, then you should not have the problems you say you are having.

Kaerwolf's Avatar


Kaerwolf
03.28.2013 , 03:47 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleRaale View Post
I've been playing this game for almost a month now, and this game seems very interesting. The story lines is amazing and I enjoy them. However, I've spent more time working on my crew skills than I am playing the story line. Having to spend a few days every 4 levels is just insane. And it's a turn off when I'm constantly trying to gather. I'm the kind of player that loves to craft stuff that the game has to offer, especially to craft my own gears for me to use based on the level I'm at. but I'm extremely disappointed with how long it takes to gather materials to keep making the same stuff over to reverse engineer to get to the better stuff and having to repeat it based on the low research odds.

Now I'm level 25 and the odds of reverse engineering have even been made more difficult to where I've made over 40 of the same type of gun and reverse engineering with not even 1 successful new schematics. Comparing this game to the others I've played, craftings in this game is way too time consuming to the point that there's no point in grinding away in this game and I can just find another game worthy of my time, mind you though, I'm a subscriber, which tells you one thing that I'm a fair guy that likes to support the game developers. But not when I'm faced with this insane time sink that. I can understand when this would be something for the max level gears as it would seem likely for it, but not for a leveling character trying to make equipments he/she can use at their current level.

So, I'm seriously hoping that the developers would look into improving how the craftings are done while leveling up, so that it's actually enjoyable to craft our own stuff as we level up and not spend so much time working on our crew skills. After all, we'll be out leveling out gears every 4 levels. So, no reason why it shouldn't be a time sink in crew skills as we level up, especially when we pay to play the game to support it.

Afterall, this is a game that is declining in paying players and this might be part of the reason for people losing interests in this game.
Prepare to get disappointed, I feel exactly as you and was extremely disappointed with this game's crafting skill system, still am. You can not make gear or modifications for yourself, barely even your own alts if you don't play your main crafter all the way before even starting an alt.

Gathering materials is time consuming and expensive yes, but it is the low returns on Reverse Engineering that is the main problem with this game. It gets even worse end game when there are only a few modifcations you can craft and the gear you can craft is pretty ugly and unwanted by the big general so there's no market for it anyway. All good gear now comes from the Cartel Coins market in those random packs you buy, you can't buy the gear you want mostly other than from other people selling it on the GTN. Modifications can only be bought with comms if you intend to R.E. it to be able to craft it, and you neeed to buy alot...I mean alot....no, higher...A little bit more. All the gear you get from raiding end game that you can't wear yourself you can't reverse engineer, you can only gear up alts for fun or sell it to a vendor as it is bind on pickup.

The whole crafting system in this game is broken and we would be better off without a crafting system at all, really would be more fair to everyone and save BW the headache of maintaining the crafting system(which in anyway is basicly what they've done with the introducttion of the Cartel Coins.)

In 2.0 it gets worse still, so we all know what finger Bioware sticks to all of us who enjoy crafting. They basicly tell us to go play another game without exactly saying it right out.