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Primadonna tanks


selios's Avatar


selios
03.12.2013 , 03:45 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by ubermouth View Post
Why do people keep introducing different scenarios? I'm talking about the scenario with the meglo-maniac, undewhelming tank + everyone else is normal- scenario.

It's becoming cliche to blame dps and make heals and tanks the martyrs.
Haven't we all played every role already? What's with the bias?
Keeping with your original scenario, did you say anything about why you were pulling first, did you tell the group that doing so would be beneficial to the group? Or did you pull first and explain after the tank got cranky?

Zatriann's Avatar


Zatriann
03.13.2013 , 07:09 PM | #22
Nah, I get the op point.
If you've played a decent dps ( god forbid me saying I'm good at that game EVER, damn I suck...), you at least once came into a group where tank was pulling, 1 (or sometime way more) mobs are not hit, turn their face to the healer and start bashing your lifeguard. You jump those mobs (most of the time they would be your normal target anyway), get aggro from those too many angry beasts, then die, while your group barely survive.

And then, while you still feel a little heroic for your noble sacrifice, while the healer is whispering thx, trying not to offend the tank, the big guy starts ************ about your bad focusing, calls you a noob and leave. Seen this scenario at least 5 times this week (admittedly in lvling ops, not hms).

Tank role as been pretty well described, but here is something not said enough :
DPS, your first priority is always the stuff that is trying to hit your healer, unless the healer can take care of himself. When tank picks aggro back, you go back to your priority list : weaks, strongs, elites (unless a specific fight works otherwise).
Now if the primadona tanks can undertand that (aka : sometimes they are not in their best shape and they make some mstakes to), we can all go back to bashing ninja pullers, dps that can't count to 2 before unloading everything in their arsenal and the ones that are just gonna hit like ******* wathever is closer to them.

oslek's Avatar


oslek
03.15.2013 , 10:34 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
Of course, there's the opposite argument. I queued as a tank because I wanted to help make the hard mode pop. Now I have to be the one to manage everything to make sure it goes as smooth as possible, and you, mr. "I'm so awesome" DPS, decides he wants to do things like pull before me or not use a proper kill order.

Well, here are the consequences... either I have to work ten times harder, in a role that is harder to find in the first place, because you're an inconsiderate bleep that doesn't know how to properly play your role. OR, I can try to let you die, but have to have the healer on the same page as me, or I'm just making the healer's job harder.

How about you stop being a bad DPS? Is that so much to ask?

A bad tank is a tank that doesn't understand the fights, can't hold single target aggro, can't approach a pull properly... you being a crappy DPS and pulling before the tank, or tunneling elites before normals/strongs, says nothing about the skill of the tank.
This. Tanking is hard enough in this game. By level 50 players should have a decent idea of how the trinity is suppose to work. The tank is suppose to pull first and hold as much agro as possible. If the DPS is popping in there first then he is screwing the whole order up because now the agro is all on him and his character isn't built for that.

JouerTue's Avatar


JouerTue
03.15.2013 , 10:54 AM | #24
i have only tanks and healers, i never complain..i just do my best, i place my guard on healer and then i put it on dps if he has too much threat, i leap and pull everything out of its place, i kill trash while elites beat me if needed..after 30k repairs(now about 10-15k since nerf) i leave..

NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
03.15.2013 , 11:05 AM | #25
I have Tanked everything in this game and have Healed, and DPS on most things in this game.

If I am tanking and DPS pulls first... I am out. There is NO reason for DPS to pull first ever.

If you pull first as a DPS you make the role of everyone else harder. Cool downs on taunts... maybe the tank is waiting so he can pull agro and hold it in the first place.

I have ran HMs/OPs with people and had group wipes because some DPS would not even let me finish a sentence I was typing saying: "I need a few seconds for taunts to be off CD." They just start shooting or jump in because they feel we are moving at a good rate... forgetting the reason we are running at a good rate is BECAUSE I had my cool downs when I pull mobs.

Tanking and healing IS harder than DPS in this game.... It's true... deal with it. So when you make someone's role even more difficult, you deserve to be left tank-less and looking or waiting on another person to Q up.

DPS has the easiest role in this game... stop complaining.
4 Server transfers later...

GM of Order Sixty Six.

oslek's Avatar


oslek
03.15.2013 , 11:31 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by ubermouth View Post
Why do people keep introducing different scenarios? I'm talking about the scenario with the meglo-maniac, undewhelming tank + everyone else is normal- scenario.

It's becoming cliche to blame dps and make heals and tanks the martyrs.
Haven't we all played every role already? What's with the bias?
Because as a DPS you're not suppose to be the first one to pull. If you're being insistent on pulling first then you deserve the wrath of the Tank.

Katrasle's Avatar


Katrasle
03.15.2013 , 11:46 AM | #27
So many weird replies in this thread. I have tanked, dpsed and healed my way up and through level 50 HM flashpoints.

Here is a question for many of you, have you ever actually LOOKED at the difficulty of these pulls in flashpoints? They are a joke... around the difficulty of a Heroic 2 most of the time. I will pull groups as a dps (sniper) because they are weak enough to be soloed. There is zero reason to sit and form a strategy for trash in this game and things like crowd control are overkill.

As a tank, I simply do not let the dps pull before me. My group does not spend the flashpoint waiting on me, they spend the flashpoint trying to keep up with me. I will pull and start to pull the next group before the first is completely killed... How can I do this?, because flashpoints are a joke in terms of difficulty.

You guys all overhype how difficult flashpoints are in this game. No CC or strategy required (generally)... aoe everything and finish the FP and get out.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
03.15.2013 , 02:50 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Katrasle View Post
As a tank, I simply do not let the dps pull before me. My group does not spend the flashpoint waiting on me, they spend the flashpoint trying to keep up with me. I will pull and start to pull the next group before the first is completely killed... How can I do this?, because flashpoints are a joke in terms of difficulty.
Finally a normal tank. Hallelujah! Praise the Force! \o/

Quote: Originally Posted by NuSeC View Post
If I am tanking and DPS pulls first... I am out. There is NO reason for DPS to pull first ever.
I will always pull first when I'm on dps and I have a slow tank that takes a coffee break before aggroing each mob. If they leave, good. Maybe the team will get a better tank and move on.

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
03.15.2013 , 06:55 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiramu View Post
Oh I don't know, I bad tank can ruin the group a lot more than a bad DPS. In fact a bad healer could ruin the group too. The fact that there is only one tanking slot and that is required to be filled with a decent player who can tank, if you don't get a decent player as tank it can really halt all progress in the group.

Most of the time if there's a bad DPS and a good tank the tank's DPS can make up for the bad DPS and if the tank is on the ball he can make up for the bad DPS's pulls.

Tanks and Healers are much more important to have a competent player as their roles, as in HMs you only get one. A bad DPS isn't as bad because the other group members can make up for it.
I never said bad healers or bad tanks didn't create problems. I said a bad DPS inflicts misery on the GROUP. A bad tank mostly just an irritant to the healer. A bad healer is mostly just an irritant to their least favorite dps. But a bad DPS irritates the tank, the healer, AND the other DPS ~ if they're any good. Sure, bad healers and tanks cause party wipes on bosses. But every last time I've wiped on a trash fight was caused by a bad DPS either making a pull with an AoE, breaking CC, not practicing a firing order, or not focus firing down strongs with the rest of the team. Party wipes on trash fights shouldn't ever happen ~ It's just stupid.

I mean seriously,, a tank is too slow to pull? That's the typical uber leet dps complaint, and their justification for intentionally making pulls. SO WHAT if it takes an extra 4 minutes to complete a FP. If you're that damn impatient and inconsiderate, or that keyed up on RL stims, you're going on my /block list.

Fact is a horrible player can single target tank any HM boss in the game, and do it well. So long as that tank has on level tanking gear & the dps are smart enough not to lead off with their highest burst possible or make the pull ~ like they would if they were playing solo with a companion. If instead, they lead off by spamming free attacks for 3 GCD's - they will never take agro from the tank unless they grossly outgear them, or the tank pops a threat dump. If you're intentionally trying to pull agro off the tank, it's not because your a great dps, or because they're a bad tank, it's because you're a jerk stroking your ePeen in front of 3 other people.

Likewise, a pretty horrible healer can heal just about any HM boss in the game, and do it well. So long as that healer has on level healing gear & the dps are smart enough to avoid taking damage they should be avoiding. It's not difficult, just stay out of the boss' face & run from AOE. If you are a melee DPS in a HM & you can see the boss' face ~ YOU are doing something wrong. If you are mad at the tank because they keep turning the boss away from you, it's because you're an idiot. Your threat dumps, interrupts, and defensive CDs are 1 mouse click away......are you really too lazy to use them?

Being a "bad" DPS has very little to do with putting up poor amounts of damage.

A group of 3 healers and a tank can DPS down almost every HM boss in this game - ON LEVEL. A "bad" DPS is a bad team player. And most of the "bad" DPS players blame everyone except themselves for their poor experience in group content ~ eventhough they consistently wreck groups for 3 other players. And if you're finding that GF & WZs are taking forever to pop ~ it's probably because you've been /blocked by more people than you realize.

What makes you a "good" DPS, is everything you can do to make content more fun for everyone else ~ on top of doing enough damage to beat the enrage timers. There are no prizes for "beating down the boss in record time".
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
03.15.2013 , 07:12 PM | #30
I'm one of those Tanks who hates DPS and especially Healers grabbing aggro first! I like it when I don't have to use taunts in a FP, it means I've done my job and done it well. But every time a healer or dps pulls aggro first I have to use my AOE taunt which means if there is an 'oh sh*t' moment later on or right after the pull our chances of wiping increase. All because people want to be impatient.

I will agree on one point tho: If DPS can manage by jumping in and pulling aggro before me without dying and the healer is ok with it, I'm ok with it. Issue is, some dps jump in and aggro a mob and get killed, then look at the tank like "why didn't you grab aggro?" When I play with that kind of DPS I let him die. But if a dps can keep it fast paced moving without dying or complaining if they do, I have no issue with that.

But it's nice to treat your tanks with gratitude in a game where there's rarely enough tanks to make queues pop faster.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
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