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So, what exactly is a DPS sorc supposed to do?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So, what exactly is a DPS sorc supposed to do?

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
02.28.2013 , 09:12 AM | #81
BTW as I've written in another thread.

If you have any views or concerns about anything regarding 2.0, it will be heard more on the pts subforum. It has been acknowledged by BW that at the moment the pvp subforum does not get a lot of attention, as they are focussing on the pts (here is BW forum post http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...8&postcount=18).

cybernoise's Avatar


cybernoise
02.28.2013 , 10:01 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
Please enlighten me. I don't see the changes in the tree being in the wrong direction. The contrary, they seem super on paper and they only have to be assessed within the overall picture of a warzone.
I didn't talk about changes in the tree, right now ap/alacrity is the way to do nearly as much dmg as the others classes. With the alacrity buff , that it will affect gcd as well,(i always thought pre 1.2 it already was like that...)
sage can finally use weaken mind too and can faster faceroll instead facerolling twice to surrive and do moderate dmg. Imagine a sage with like 50%+ crit and a strong critdmg like pre 1.2 ull heal over 300k in the end without even hit a healspell once. people underrestimate it i see most builds dont use it (crit 2% heal) and balance have an unbelievable cost of force. If i get ignored i can handle it easy, but if i have 1+ people on me force dissappears so quickly that i find myself running away waiting till i have enough force for my root and so on...

I want to mention that nearly every dps class runs aroung with 100% crit buffs.... that's not good... even with higher tears of gear. pre 1.2 it wasn't realy a problem as i know.
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
You are not saying how they will not, but it doesmt matter because yes they will. Power and crit will benefit the 50% extra crit damage of dist and tk wave. Alacrity will allow you to have faster casting/channeling times and rotations.
Again i spoke about the balance tree. And 50%critdmg is given in the tree right now, there is nothing new about that.

Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
Tk has more burst in 2.0. Rephrase a balance/tk hybrid with appropriate rotation has more burst than either of the two. Leaving aside alacrity and potency, the rest of the time for highest burst you have to get some procs and rely on crit. That's the most balanced burst. Every class should be built around this.
realy ? more burst ? FiB hit with over 8k... then immediatly a project with additional 4k+ ... show me where TK reach that.

Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
What was the nerf in balance you are referring to? Loss if instant force lift? It would be hardly applicable as balance got even more dots now. Balance in fact got buffed, just not maybe to the extend other trees of any class got buffed. And this still remains to be seen on how much damage the proc dot from tk will do. Also if the proc chance was increased there then balance would be a serious competitor for sustained damage with occasional burst.
more dots ? there is 1 extra tick with telekinetic throw which is great for additinal proc chance for healing but still that's it. With the forcelift nerf, u never can abuse this talent to stun a target, right now u can stun someone 8sec and additonal 2 if u do dmg on him. now ur cast can be interrupted and u don't have the time, dunno how often i killed to people or managed a 1v2 situation by instantly lifting one up, not to think about the fact that it is another range interupt !! balance got more dmg than ever no doubt about that but it will be hard to surrive than ever !

Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
The amount of resolve that WW gives for a 2s stun is not worth it. Instant WW was nice as an interrupt or to cc the healer. It was a last measure in a 1v1 fight and if you really wanted to make full use of it then you should have hold your dots back.
The fact that you sir, ignoring a range interupt makes me wonder if you think about what ur talking.
But i totally agree resolve will fill very quickly but still it can be used for so so many things... even huttball if player stands on fire, lift up.. dead.(if u have nothing else rdy!

Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
You are running ahead, by judging it as "huge". You have to test the damage and compare it to other classes. Every class had the capability of big numbers, with some even more so such as smash specs. However, the difference is that sages did fluff damage and the rest of the classes did burst damage.
i know other class may do more dmg or got a bmg boost too, but sage is range and he does a lot of damage right now with the buff balance sage will be able to destory whole teams if he get's ignored, maybe one of the best dps class on range and with the great tools for kiteing, los and stuff a high threat like snipers.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
02.28.2013 , 11:15 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by cybernoise View Post
I didn't talk about changes in the tree, right now ap/alacrity is the way to do nearly as much dmg as the others classes. With the alacrity buff , that it will affect gcd as well,(i always thought pre 1.2 it already was like that...)
sage can finally use weaken mind too and can faster faceroll instead facerolling twice to surrive and do moderate dmg. Imagine a sage with like 50%+ crit and a strong critdmg like pre 1.2 ull heal over 300k in the end without even hit a healspell once. people underrestimate it i see most builds dont use it (crit 2% heal) and balance have an unbelievable cost of force. If i get ignored i can handle it easy, but if i have 1+ people on me force dissappears so quickly that i find myself running away waiting till i have enough force for my root and so on...

I want to mention that nearly every dps class runs aroung with 100% crit buffs.... that's not good... even with higher tears of gear. pre 1.2 it wasn't realy a problem as i know.

Again i spoke about the balance tree. And 50%critdmg is given in the tree right now, there is nothing new about that.
Im sorry but I can't understand a word of what you are saying in this paragraph. Im afraid you are making too many references to pre 1.2, when we are at 1.7 at the moment with 2.0 coming up. Also you use theoretical examples that cannot be applied, like "imagine a sage with 50%" crit.


Quote:
realy ? more burst ? FiB hit with over 8k... then immediatly a project with additional 4k+ ... show me where TK reach that.
We must be playing a different game cause force in balance does not do 8k damage. Also 4k project requires a crit and a proc. TK can now have 5k disturbances if you looked at the trees and there are other combos and procs that can give you burst from other abilities.


Quote:
more dots ? there is 1 extra tick with telekinetic throw which is great for additinal proc chance for healing but still that's it. With the forcelift nerf, u never can abuse this talent to stun a target, right now u can stun someone 8sec and additonal 2 if u do dmg on him. now ur cast can be interrupted and u don't have the time, dunno how often i killed to people or managed a 1v2 situation by instantly lifting one up, not to think about the fact that it is another range interupt !! balance got more dmg than ever no doubt about that but it will be hard to surrive than ever !
It's 2 ticks the dot that can be applied, and there is no lockout duration. Have you even actually looked at the trees?


Quote:
The fact that you sir, ignoring a range interupt makes me wonder if you think about what ur talking.
But i totally agree resolve will fill very quickly but still it can be used for so so many things... even huttball if player stands on fire, lift up.. dead.(if u have nothing else rdy!
My answer to your nonsense insults.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...5&postcount=62
I also suggested in another thread that the stun should go back to 30m now with the loss of instant force lift, as sages have no long range mezz/stun, thinking exactly of catching people on fire pits and some more situations that I don't feel the need to elaborate.

Quote:
i know other class may do more dmg or got a bmg boost too, but sage is range and he does a lot of damage right now with the buff balance sage will be able to destory whole teams if he get's ignored, maybe one of the best dps class on range and with the great tools for kiteing, los and stuff a high threat like snipers.
If you have been counting your damage by final numbers and playing balance with dots all the time, then you have been doing fluffy damage while others actually have been doing the killing. I would take a vanguard, a sentinel or a sniper anyday than yourself sir. Saying that the damage is so huge for sages in 2.0 is rushing ahead without any evidences on what is actually gonna happen in the warzones.

EDIT: My eye actually caught where you are telling me whether I consider instant force lfit as an interrupt, while you are quoting me saying that it is nice as an interrupt. What the heck dude? Do you even read the posts you are replying to? Gosh, I'm now pissed off with the time I wasted replying to you.

AndalusRenegade's Avatar


AndalusRenegade
02.28.2013 , 11:24 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Cretinus View Post
I didn't start this topic out of a situational rage mood. I also play a marauder (carnage) and although he gets killed quite often, he kills quite often himself.
In WZs, if my marauder gets attacked, it's a 50% win/loss. If the sorc gets attacked, it's a 90% loss and the remaining 10% is when fighting other sorcs/sages. Worth mentioning that the sorc is better geared than the marauder. Still, the marauder's burst is already 2X that of the sorcerer.
I'm not saying that a sorc should have a caranage mara's burst, but he should have sufficient burst for at least being able to nuke the oponent when he's slowed or at range. Currently, the only thing you can do as a sorc against a non-sorc is to run away. If you manage to do so and he swaps target, you'll find yourself scratching him with a completely ridiculous dmg from behind. If he comes back, you're dead. If not, he's dead, but only if somebody else helps making dmg cause yours is not enough.
I play a dps Sage and i have to say, that's entirely untrue. Playing every class allows you to know the weakness of and strengths of each class (line of sight, closs range, repeated attacks to build some type of bonus) all of those things. If you know them then you'll be able to use that info against them. I'm not saying every 1v1 is a win for me(marauders are op if geared) but they are stronger than you say

FodderofCannon's Avatar


FodderofCannon
02.28.2013 , 03:21 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by AndalusRenegade View Post
I play a dps Sage and i have to say, that's entirely untrue. Playing every class allows you to know the weakness of and strengths of each class (line of sight, closs range, repeated attacks to build some type of bonus) all of those things. If you know them then you'll be able to use that info against them. I'm not saying every 1v1 is a win for me(marauders are op if geared) but they are stronger than you say
This is nonsense. Any equally geared PT, Sniper, Sin, or Guard, or Mara can kill you easy unless they know nothing of Sorc abilites. They are awesome if ignored or somehow manage to pull you into a kite, in group fights that never happens. Otherwise dps sorcs are the weakest pvp class in this game with the possible exception of Mercs.

Are they fun? Hell yeah, you know when you get a kill or don't die you earned it. But balanced? They are balanced healers, that's about it.
Learn to Think
L2T

Cretinus's Avatar


Cretinus
02.28.2013 , 04:34 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by AndalusRenegade View Post
I play a dps Sage and i have to say, that's entirely untrue. Playing every class allows you to know the weakness of and strengths of each class (line of sight, closs range, repeated attacks to build some type of bonus) all of those things. If you know them then you'll be able to use that info against them. I'm not saying every 1v1 is a win for me(marauders are op if geared) but they are stronger than you say
It doesn't help to come here and tell people that sorc is fine and then to present the usual indications of LOS etc.You can't LOS forever a melee that wants to kill you, cause as long as you're trying to LOS, you're not doing anything towards winning the fight. You're simply trying to run away so that he doesn't kill you. This might sound plausible if one thinks of a healer avoiding to getting killed by a DPS. But the sage we're talking about is a f. DPS himself! He needs to have a chance to kill the melee, otherwise his class doesn't make any sense.

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
02.28.2013 , 08:19 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
My answer to your nonsense insults.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...5&postcount=62
I also suggested in another thread that the stun should go back to 30m now with the loss of instant force lift, as sages have no long range mezz/stun, thinking exactly of catching people on fire pits and some more situations that I don't feel the need to elaborate.
Yeah this is terrible actually, haven't even realized this nerf until I read that. Apart from going full Madness, sorcs/sages have no ranged instant cc, whether it be root, mezz or a stun.

In a world of 5 second roots and instant 8 second AoE mezzs.

I tell ya, we get no respect!
Saminette
<DMG Ctrl> <Purple Cog>
Harbinger

sauerkraut's Avatar


sauerkraut
02.28.2013 , 09:17 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Cretinus View Post
If melee wants to kill you, then melee will kill you in 2 GCDs. Might take a few jumps on you, but he will.
But hey: If he doesn't notice you, you can range DPS him to 2/3 HP within 8 casted GCDs!

If pyro gets close to you, then pyro will 1hit you.
But hey: Don't be a baddy! Just kite him! While doing so, you can do .... absolutely nothing. And sooner or later you'll be eating that granade. But hey: you're not alone, are you? You can win every 2X1 against a pyro! If you kite him that is, cause otherwise he will 1hit you.

Assassin comes out of stealth and hits your HP down to 1/3?
Not a problem. You have CCs! He's immune? Well, every class has a hard counter, doesn't it?

And anyway: Together with a healer, you can win every 1X1! Wait, that's 2X1.... oh well. Who cares.
And anyway: If the group protects you, you can even do some decent assists with dmg from behind. Not as good as those 7K Gods, but hey! You're not taking any dmg, as long as you're not taking any dmg, so too much burst would be OP!
And anyway: The game is not balanced for 1X1. Other classes demolish everything 1X1, but hey! Te game is not balanced for 1X1!
And anyway: You have that stupid bubble stun on every1. What? You're DPS and have too much CD on the bubble? Well, respecc heal then!

So stop being a baboon. The game is not balanced for 1X1, or for pugs. Learn 2p and go scientific with min/max/augment/gearing and also with gameplay and once in a while you might get a 4K crit, or even beat a marauder 1X1. At least if you have a healer helping out. What? That's not 1X1? Well, the game isn't balanced around 1X1, is it?
I've been playing a DPS sorc and I'm a pro and I tell you: DPS sorc is fine. L2p.
Dude what you saying here, just with different words ( you admit it or not )is that you are the best and only an OP class can kill you. Ergo every other class is OP.

ObscureKnight's Avatar


ObscureKnight
02.28.2013 , 10:17 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
As far as losing one on one's.... well, we're actually decent at one on one's where we can actually kite/los and afford to draw the battle out - maybe they should give us a cooldown that summons a pillar for us to kite around
Amen to the pillar. I have a sage and a sorc, both set up for field re-specs. But the toughest guys I have dealt with ever are the ones who know how to use the terrain to their advantage. If they have a DPS PT / Van hiding near by to taunt you then they are tough to kill.
Shadowkeeper
Imps: Fd - Sorc, Xl - Sin, Rg - Jug, MissGuidance - Mara, Mirialan - Merc, Shd - PT, Noctur Pubs: Fde, bscura - Shadow, Starri - Sent, Glss - Commando, Nil - Vanguard, Inco'gnito - Slinger

DarkPharohEclip's Avatar


DarkPharohEclip
03.01.2013 , 12:18 AM | #90
Not exaclty sure what the OP wants here, I have a sorc and my dps is amazing, you are playing a cloth class, you are gonna take more damage and dish out more. Reality here is everyone just wants a buff so they can have the most OP class in the game... Buff this you better do them all, because there are other classes out there hurting alot worse than a sorc.