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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.19.2013 , 04:10 PM | #601
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Even if Traya knows what G0-T0 looks like (does she? Cause if not this is a TON easier) he has plenty of droids that look exactly like him. He could easily send one of them in a doomed assult or just have it be assassinated. If she doesn't know what he looks like, and only knows he's a droid, G0-T0 could be "revealed" to be any droid under the stars.

Faking his own death would mean no more threat from Exchange bosses that think he no longer exists and he now has the element of suprise. He would still keep in touch with his Gand, Ubese, Zhug Brothers, HK-50s, etc, but now all of his rivals think he's out of the picture.

This creates the power vaccum I was talking about, making Nar Shaddaa a very chaotic and dangerous place to be. Traya's efforts would be disrupted by the lack of structure and the lack of information on G0-T0, who is "dead."

Getting rid of his Exchange goons doesn't really hurt G0-T0 at all. He has plenty of credits to do what he needs to and with the forces closest to him he is more than capable of taking down Traya. He could just buy/gather what supplies and tech he needs, pretend to die, then strike at Traya without having to worry about his schemeing allies.
The thing is, any assault that G0-T0 designs to fail is likely going to get blown out of the sky before it reaches the planet. And let's say my some miracle G0-T0's half hearted attempt actually get's him on the planet, Traya is going to be extremely suspicious if a lone droid just throws itself at the academy, even if accompanied by an army of HKs - its suicidal.

So faking an assassination is the only way... Traya isn't exactly listening on the HoloNet so some sort of new broadcast wouldn't work. And if G0-T0 had rumours of his death spread by whoever Traya would be very suspicious, seems to much of a coincidence.

However, Traya is going to be attempting to turn G0-T0's powerbase against him. But G0-T0 has an extensive intelligence network and any betrayals he will be aware of. But he could pretend he is not, allow say Visquis to locate his 'yacht' (which would be a replica) and have Traya shoot it out of the sky. Or better yet, if Traya decides to infiltrate the yacht have a fake G0-T0 be there and be destroyed. That would be convincing enough for Traya I think. It may be convincing enough for Traya to recall her interdiction fleet and cease the fighter blockade on Malachor V, allowing G0-T0 to slip in and detonate the MSG.

However we also have to consider that prior to his 'death' Traya other attacks will still be commencing e.g. Telos IV, shipyard raids, attacks that could lead to G0-T0s downfall. However if anything it provides G0-T0 with a surefire means of bypassing Malachor's defenses, something he previously did not have. But I'm totting up the marks now, and this at least means that whoever comes out on top has a strong 'win' scenario rather than a smattering of hit and misses.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.19.2013 , 04:39 PM | #602
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But they can't get in before the panel drops down, the velocity is too strong. Yes magnetic boots but in order to move they have to walk, this involves lifting a foot up and moving it forward. Here in lies the problem, as soon as they lift that foot up and attempt to move it through the window the power of the velocity push it back and the droid is sent flailing backwards holding on to the vessel with one foot and looking kinda dumb. Because they lack magnetic tracks, getting inside while the air is pushing them back is impossible. And in case you thought this was the case, blasting open some windows before will not reduce the velocity when you blast open some more as the air is replenished instantly.
Uh actually they can, until the room is repressurized (and some of the windows were fairly large), they won't really have to contend with the force of air pushing outward on them. It requires some timing, but these are assassin droids, not the 3 stooges.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

There are also some other problems that need to be overcome:
  • Breaking through the panels, they will be inches thick so heavy explosives will be needed, this will likely blow the bridge walls apart, leaving them exposed to attacks via multiple fighters, which only need to scatter fire in that general direction. The fighters will also start shooting once the first detonation goes off.

  • If anyone survives the initial blast (e.g. Sith) they may very well transfer control of the bridge or shut it down completely, that latter can be done remotely, forcing the HK units to hack it and buying the Sith more time to intervene.

  • Emergency protocols will be in place for this kind of attack. Which will likely involve rapid response droid teams being dispatched to the bridge. Were talking assaults droids equipped with powerful deflector shields and blaster cannons. And magnetized of course.

  • If the HK units manage to overcome all this, they still have hundreds of Sith fighters to deal with which could potentially cripple the vessels or do serious damage to the now exposed bridge and HK's aboard it.

  • Malachor V will also still be protected by a web of dormant fighters spread across the debris, which Traya would likely have opted to remain in place in case the attack on her fleet was a distraction.

  • Due to the time it will take to outfit several freighters with stealth tech, transport HKs and equip them with disruptor rifles, and capture Bao-Dur and convince/force him to reactivate the MSG. Traya will already have struck at G0-T0's Exchange bases on Nar Shaddaa and Telos IV. To which it will take his commandeered fleet roughly 2 days to respond to (travel time in planets.)

  • Those smugglers and bounty hunters riled by Traya's attacks on Nar Shaddaa may end up attacking G0-T0's commandeered vessels if they drop out of hyperspace above Nar Shaddaa.
To respond to your points:
  • I specified shaped charges for a reason, they would direct the explosive force directly into the the plate instead of every which way, thus reducing the mass of the necessary explosive devices considerably. The downside is the the panel would be shot into the bridge and then flung back out, thus the entry point would need to be toward the front of the bridge, to try to minimize damage to ship controls. Though the HK units may chose windows closer to the controls to make sure people got tossed into space

  • Survivors could be an issue, but I'm not sure there would be any survivors depending the windows targetted. I'm not sure how quick they could lock out the bridge controls either, supposedly it takes some time to do, and the time window we're talking about is a matter of seconds not minutes.

  • Normally invaders will enter through the hanger or some other location. Additionally, odds are they can reprogram the defense droids from the bridge to kill all organics on the ship and designate the HK 50's as friendly forces.

  • Sith Fighters could in theory be a problem, however most of the pilots would not be off ship at the time, those that are doing the standard patrols could still be a threat, I'll grant you that, but there are key problems with this counter:
    • Sith Starfighters share a common flaw with TIE Fighters from the Galactic Civil War, in addition to lacking shields, they also lack hyperdrives. A short hyperspace jump would leave those pilots stranded and they'll eventually die when their fighter runs out of fuel, they run out of air, or run out of food and water.
    • The controls to raise the ray shielding are on the bridge, giving the droids some protection once they activate the shields, which buys time to calculate the afore mentioned hyperspace jump.

  • Someone else brought up the fact G0-T0 would use probes to scout the area first. Additionally, G0-T0 wouldn't necessarily move the fleet into the debris field, he'd position them in a manner that would make it rather hard to sneak up on his newly acquired fleet.

  • Concerning the time factor, yeah if I was talking about outfitting several freighters with stealth tech, it would be way too time consuming to be practical. However, I'm only talking about 2 to 3 freighters (theoretically G0-T0 could use his own yacht to pull this off, but I don't see him risking his baby that early in the Kaggath), so the prep time for the freighters wouldn't be too bad. As for the other time factors:
    • Bao-dur would be easy enough for G0-T0 to locate, however I don't think G0-T0 would have to capture Bao-dur. All he has to do is send a messenger (preferably some HK 50s with orders not to harm Bao-dur), have them play a recorded message to Bao-dur, concerning the Sith Presence, and ask him how to reactivate the MSG and destroy Malachor V again and hopefully destroying the MSG too. He also advises Bao-dur go into hiding for a while cause the Sith might be after him too, potentially to force him to create a new MSG to use on a heavily populated world.
    • Also about time it takes to obtain weapons: the Disruptor Rifles, Disruptor Pistols, explosives, blasters, grenades, etc. I don't think G0-T0 would have any problem obtaining this stuff, within a matter of hours.
    • An attack on Nar Shaddaa wouldn't affect G0-T0 all that much, yeah it would be an inconveinence, however if he has the work on those freighters done elsewhere (let's face it, there are independent criminal groups that do starship modification that aren't located on Nar Shaddaa), or in a heavily fortified and well hidden starship garage, then it's likely his freighters will be intact.

  • About the smugglers and bounty hunters attacking, if he has his newly acquired ships drop out of orbit over Nar Shaddaa, he can leave the HK 50s standing orders to immediately open public channel to "Goto" that everyone with a comm system in the area can hear.
    1. That they have taken the warships from Darth Traya
    2. To which "Goto" can publicly announce that his "confiscation" of these ships was in response to Traya's cowardly attack on the people of Nar Shaddaa
    3. "Goto" can then bring up the MSG that Traya may be trying to obtain to conduct other horrific acts, and as such steps are going to be taken to put a stop to her plans
    4. "Goto" rallies the support of the smugglers and BHs and his new ships for the time being are not attacked, he can say he isn't allowing people on those ships till he's sure that the ships have been cleared of all Sith, and something can be invented to disrupt personal stealth fields (the assassins).

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

For these reasons it would be better to tailor the attack to sabotage rather than commandeering. Instead of trying to access the bridge the droids could simply attempt to blow it up. Attaching, say, thorium charges or something more powerful to the bridges and destroying them. Traya would have no means of repairing them and these vessels would effectively be taken out of the picture, giving G0-T0 a greater chance of winning.
Well the backup plan is to simply have the ships ram each other, which would count as sabotage.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

P.S. The sith assassins wield force pikes, not metal sticks, their vibro-tipped edges are capable of cutting through thin durasteel - these can be used to cut through at the edges and deactivate the force fields, either that or overload them with grenades/mines.
Well, the cutting the edges with the pikes would take quite a bit of time, and explosives would kind of defeat the purpose of stealth. In either case if the force fields go down, the HK 50s would be alerted to the presence of the Sith Assassins...

Also some traps might not be able to be disabled (such as the gas vents in the floor). In all seriousness, while the factory could eventually be overwhelmed, I don't think Traya has the manpower for that kind of an operation.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

And how is G0-T0 going to fake his death? Blow up his own yacht?
He could always blow up a ship that looks identical to his yacht (at least on the outside).

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.19.2013 , 08:22 PM | #603
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
  • I specified shaped charges for a reason, they would direct the explosive force directly into the the plate instead of every which way, thus reducing the mass of the necessary explosive devices considerably. The downside is the the panel would be shot into the bridge and then flung back out, thus the entry point would need to be toward the front of the bridge, to try to minimize damage to ship controls. Though the HK units may chose windows closer to the controls to make sure people got tossed into space

    They're still going to have to wait for the room to depressurize, during which time the panels will seal off the bridge again and the response teams will arrive.
  • Survivors could be an issue, but I'm not sure there would be any survivors depending the windows targetted. I'm not sure how quick they could lock out the bridge controls either, supposedly it takes some time to do, and the time window we're talking about is a matter of seconds not minutes.

    Well, they've actually got some time. Any Sith on the bridge would likely be fine, they'd just keep themselves from falling out into space with the Force (much the way Anakin and Obi-Wan did) and then when the panels seal up, they'd reroute the controls and leave while the droids are still clomping back over, placing new charges, and getting to safe distance.
  • Normally invaders will enter through the hanger or some other location. Additionally, odds are they can reprogram the defense droids from the bridge to kill all organics on the ship and designate the HK 50's as friendly forces.
The bridge and CIC are always guarded when the crew is at battle stations, which they will be when they detect the droids' ship coming out of hyperspace. Good luck reprogramming them while being shot to shreds by the response team...

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
[*]Sith Fighters could in theory be a problem, however most of the pilots would not be off ship at the time, those that are doing the standard patrols could still be a threat, I'll grant you that, but there are key problems with this counter:
  • Sith Starfighters share a common flaw with TIE Fighters from the Galactic Civil War, in addition to lacking shields, they also lack hyperdrives. A short hyperspace jump would leave those pilots stranded and they'll eventually die when their fighter runs out of fuel, they run out of air, or run out of food and water.
  • The controls to raise the ray shielding are on the bridge, giving the droids some protection once they activate the shields, which buys time to calculate the afore mentioned hyperspace jump.
Pretty sure ray shields are for prisoner containment. Furthermore, while the droids are busy trying to figure out the Rakatan controls they've never seen before, the response teams will destroy them.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
[*]Concerning the time factor, yeah if I was talking about outfitting several freighters with stealth tech, it would be way too time consuming to be practical. However, I'm only talking about 2 to 3 freighters (theoretically G0-T0 could use his own yacht to pull this off, but I don't see him risking his baby that early in the Kaggath), so the prep time for the freighters wouldn't be too bad.
Do you understand what he word "several" actually means? In English it's taken to mean "more than two, and usually less than five"... so "2 to 3 freighters" is several.

Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Well the backup plan is to simply have the ships ram each other, which would count as sabotage.
In space, warships are usually not very close to each other at all. It would probably take at least an hour to maneuver bulky capital ships onto a collision course.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.20.2013 , 01:03 PM | #604
Now I'm no expert on shaped charges but I'm sure the purpose of them is to concentrate the blast at a particular point, therefore rather than blasting the target to pieces, it simply punches a whole through it. Unless the charge simply can't get through the metal the panel would stay in place, just have a hole in it, and not large enough to climb through. There is also something of a backlash.

There is also one other problem: life support. Once the droids blow the window for the second time the ship will already be on high alert and forces will be en route to the bridge. Once the initial 'suck' has taken place any unit magnetized or not, biological or not can move in because the particle fields will still be operational. For example on the Ravager, it had massive holes in its hull and yet the particle fields stopped people getting sucked right out. With the life support completely undamaged and not yet shut down, the defenders have a window of opportunity to swarm the bridge as the HKs climb through the window.

Also, we have to remember G0-T0 knows little about Bao-Dur, only military files. He will not be aware that Bao-Dur would actually want to reactivate the MSG, nor does he have any idea of what he could give Bao-Dur to convince him. Therefore he's likely to opt for threats/interrogation to force him to help. Also Bao-Dur has no love for the Exchange, he hates the Czerka presence on Telos IV and greedy corporations as a whole. The Exchange are in league with Czerka on the planet and are effectively a greedy corporation. Therefore Bao-Dur may make demands G0-T0 is not willing to accept (e.g. get off Telos) so G0-T0 may opt for interrogation and threats. Not that that would take too long but it would involve capturing him etc.

NOTE: Repressurisation is instantaneous, introduce air to a vacuum and it moves very quickly. So as soon as the panels drop the bridge will have repressurised, meaning the HKs will have to wait a little before entering, and even then slowly with magnetic feet, and under laserfire from fighters. Speaking fighters I was under the assumption they would be deployed after the freighters were detected.

You make some other good points but I'm going to start wrapping this up now and Ventessel has already offered some counter arguments. Everything will be considered.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.20.2013 , 02:17 PM | #605
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Now I'm no expert on shaped charges but I'm sure the purpose of them is to concentrate the blast at a particular point, therefore rather than blasting the target to pieces, it simply punches a whole through it. Unless the charge simply can't get through the metal the panel would stay in place, just have a hole in it, and not large enough to climb through. There is also something of a backlash.
As a closing note, on the topic of shaped charges: A shaped charge is simply a given quantity of explosives which is designed to deliver a greater amount of energy is a certain direction, rather than an evenly distributed impulse from the explosion.

So for X equivalent tons of TNT, a shaped charge will have a lopsided distribution of explosive force in one direction or another, rather than an even spread when compared to said equivalent tons of TNT (or whatever explosive measurement is used in Star Wars). This means that the minimum safe distance on one side of the explosion is somewhat reduced, but there is still the danger of shrapnel from the explosion. In order to be safe, the HKs might have to get "over the horizon" on the hull or risk being struck with high velocity fragments.

Lastly, there is little research on how well explosions propagate in space. One possibility is that without anything to absorb the force of the explosion, the blast radius may very well be increased when presented with empty space. This leaves the risk that the HKs could be blasted off of the hull if they are too close to the center of the blast.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.20.2013 , 03:45 PM | #606
^^Interesting, I'll take that into account.

However there is one thing I have realised, this plan is obviously quite complex and requires a lot of resources/skill. Whereas the plan presented before (infiltrate the vessels and simply download a virus) is far simpler and far easier. And with 2 vessels captured he is in the position to directly hack the rest of the fleet by opening necessary channels with the 'friendly' fleet. So surely G0-T0 would opt for that plan?

However here's the catch, G0-T0 won't realise the fatal flaw in such an operation, he'll think jamming their signals will be enough to prevent them alerting the rest of the fleet. However what he won't have bargained for is the telepathic connection Traya would have established with her Sith, who would alert her to the situation as soon as the ship starts going crazy. As such when the Interdictors drop out above Malachor V - they'll be walking right into a trap.

Of course G0-T0 could try again with plan 2, but it will be a significant set back - just a thought.

P.S. Ventessel, I hope you don't mind me asking, but you seem to know a whole lot about military stuffs (), how come?

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.20.2013 , 03:45 PM | #607
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Now I'm no expert on shaped charges but I'm sure the purpose of them is to concentrate the blast at a particular point, therefore rather than blasting the target to pieces, it simply punches a whole through it. Unless the charge simply can't get through the metal the panel would stay in place, just have a hole in it, and not large enough to climb through. There is also something of a backlash.
That's a good argument, however depending on where they place the charge, they could still take out the entire plate. Additionally, I'm not sure how much force the mechanism that slams the plate down can generate. I just considered it may be possible for an HK unit to actually hold the plate open until the storm the bridge and then let it come down after they are all inside.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

There is also one other problem: life support. Once the droids blow the window for the second time the ship will already be on high alert and forces will be en route to the bridge. Once the initial 'suck' has taken place any unit magnetized or not, biological or not can move in because the particle fields will still be operational. For example on the Ravager, it had massive holes in its hull and yet the particle fields stopped people getting sucked right out. With the life support completely undamaged and not yet shut down, the defenders have a window of opportunity to swarm the bridge as the HKs climb through the window.
Good thing the bridge has more than one window then...

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

Also, we have to remember G0-T0 knows little about Bao-Dur, only military files. He will not be aware that Bao-Dur would actually want to reactivate the MSG, nor does he have any idea of what he could give Bao-Dur to convince him. Therefore he's likely to opt for threats/interrogation to force him to help. Also Bao-Dur has no love for the Exchange, he hates the Czerka presence on Telos IV and greedy corporations as a whole. The Exchange are in league with Czerka on the planet and are effectively a greedy corporation. Therefore Bao-Dur may make demands G0-T0 is not willing to accept (e.g. get off Telos) so G0-T0 may opt for interrogation and threats. Not that that would take too long but it would involve capturing him etc.
If he's trying to get the information in a hurry, he may actually agree with the demands provided Bao-dur upholds his end of things. Interrogation may take up too much time and G0-T0 is on a schedule, so he'd probably resort to making a deal first.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

NOTE: Repressurisation is instantaneous, introduce air to a vacuum and it moves very quickly. So as soon as the panels drop the bridge will have repressurised, meaning the HKs will have to wait a little before entering, and even then slowly with magnetic feet, and under laserfire from fighters. Speaking fighters I was under the assumption they would be deployed after the freighters were detected.
Actually it isn't instantaneous, granted it won't take very long to fully repressurize, but it will still take time to do so and if the HK units time things correctly, they have a window of opportunity to enter the bridge without having to deal with as much air blasting at them.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

You make some other good points but I'm going to start wrapping this up now and Ventessel has already offered some counter arguments. Everything will be considered.
I really wish he hadn't put his counterpoints inside quotes, it makes it very difficult to reply to.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
As a closing note, on the topic of shaped charges: A shaped charge is simply a given quantity of explosives which is designed to deliver a greater amount of energy is a certain direction, rather than an evenly distributed impulse from the explosion.

So for X equivalent tons of TNT, a shaped charge will have a lopsided distribution of explosive force in one direction or another, rather than an even spread when compared to said equivalent tons of TNT (or whatever explosive measurement is used in Star Wars). This means that the minimum safe distance on one side of the explosion is somewhat reduced, but there is still the danger of shrapnel from the explosion. In order to be safe, the HKs might have to get "over the horizon" on the hull or risk being struck with high velocity fragments.

Lastly, there is little research on how well explosions propagate in space. One possibility is that without anything to absorb the force of the explosion, the blast radius may very well be increased when presented with empty space. This leaves the risk that the HKs could be blasted off of the hull if they are too close to the center of the blast.
Considering how depth charges capitalize on the added pressure in water to be more destructive to submarines even if it is not an actual hit, I don't think explosive force is an issue.

Now concerning shrapenal, that could be an issue, on the other hand they aren't exactly organics either, so it's not like they will experience explosive decompression (which is why I specified the attackers be droids).

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.20.2013 , 03:52 PM | #608
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
However what he won't have bargained for is the telepathic connection Traya would have established with her Sith, who would alert her to the situation as soon as the ship starts going crazy.
Hold up.

When have we ever seen Traya, or any other Sith for that matter, do this?

Traya and the Exile had a Force Bond. Traya does not have a Force Bond with every one of her Sith (nor can she create them). Traya only communicated with the Exile while they were on the same planet, seemingly while they were within a few miles of each other.

How is Traya supposed to speak with such detail to Sith she has no special connection to if they're thousands of miles (at least) away?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.20.2013 , 03:57 PM | #609
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Hold up.

When have we ever seen Traya, or any other Sith for that matter, do this?

Traya and the Exile had a Force Bond. Traya does not have a Force Bond with ever one of her Sith (nor can she create them). Traya only communicated with the Exile while they were on the same planet, seemingly while they were within a few miles of each other.

How is Traya supposed to speak with such detail to Sith she has no special connection to if they're thousands of miles (at least) away?
Agreed, the Sith also aren't very forgiving of failure. Sending Force Messages would be more in line with Jedi, than with Sith.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
03.20.2013 , 04:31 PM | #610
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Hold up.

When have we ever seen Traya, or any other Sith for that matter, do this?

Traya and the Exile had a Force Bond. Traya does not have a Force Bond with every one of her Sith (nor can she create them). Traya only communicated with the Exile while they were on the same planet, seemingly while they were within a few miles of each other.

How is Traya supposed to speak with such detail to Sith she has no special connection to if they're thousands of miles (at least) away?
I also considered this, but then I remembered Kreia communicated with Atris telepathically - despite having no connections to her (as far as we know) - and that was over, what several thousand light-years? Traya was obviously somewhat unique.

And then we apply that to our knowledge of telepathy as a Force power:

"Every Force user, Jedi or Sith, was able to use it. The range of telepathy itself is theoretically infinite, but the telepath must be able to sense the presences of those they wish to contact."

However we also have to consider the following:

"It should be noted that while every Force-adept was able to use it, very few were actually skilled enough to commit in actual telepathic conversations. Most Force-sensitive individuals could only exchange short four or five-word sentences to those that they shared close bonds with."

So while Traya is likely capable of tramitting more information, the Sith in question will find it difficult to transmit anything other that 'Help! We're under attack!" or something to that effect. So while Traya's forces would be prepared, they wouldn't know exactly what to suspect.
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Agreed, the Sith also aren't very forgiving of failure. Sending Force Messages would be more in line with Jedi, than with Sith.
Sith aren't stupid, they don't forgive failure but they don't adopt the policy: 'If you fail, just don't tell me about it." We also have to consider that because of Malachor's electromagnetic interference, this is the only way she can communicate with her forces.