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PvE DPS


adrunktick's Avatar


adrunktick
02.04.2013 , 11:49 PM | #1
Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?

I_Sithed_MyPants's Avatar


I_Sithed_MyPants
02.05.2013 , 12:37 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by adrunktick View Post
Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?
Don't trust the dummy numbers, it's a stationary target so it doesn't compare to ops where you will have to move.
Also, if you're uploading a log to torparse and not clipping te start and end off, you get about 2 seconds where you do 0 damage at the start and a long time where your damage is 0 or just low while you're waiting for dots to fade.

So, don't compare dummy numbers to what you do in ops.

Some people might recommend lightning, maybe it's good and I couldnt play it but my dps was always lower in lighting than full madness or hybrid. Out of madness and hybrid I'd recommend the hybrid including chain shock instead of parasitism, then work a shock into your rotation when you have force spare.

However, when RoTHC comes out with new levels and abilities, it's possible the hybrid will become obsolete depending on what new abilities are introduced.

Edit: here's 2 links to a 5 minute parse by a Sage doing 1790 dps on the Operations Dummy on the fleet, he's using a hybrid build which you can see in the second link to his AMR profile which will also show you his gear and stats:
Torparse link: http://www.torparse.com/a/22414/time...998/0/Overview
AMR link: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...b-31164a43bb59

2nd Edit: That is an old torparse link and the AMR profile has been updated since that torparse link was made, I'd expect he could do around 1820 - 1850 now.
R.I.P <Antisocial Elitists>

Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
02.05.2013 , 03:06 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by adrunktick View Post
Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?
Are you fully-buffed? Using a stim? 1450 is basically OK, but admittably you should be doing more. My full-Telekinetics Sage (Lightning equivalent) has an average gear slighly better than Rakata (mostly pvp-gear, EWH main- and offhand, so the hilt and armoring give me the Force Bonus I want. :P) and my best run on the dummy was 1560 (using a Rakata Power Adrenal I should get higher, but due to fleet lag I haven't got a decent try at it yet).

I belive some hybrids are currently the top-dps choice for Sorcs, but I wouldn't worry about the hypothetical top-dps - just play the spec you enjoy most! For me it's Lightning, just couldn't get into the flow of Madness (or hybrids).

One thing that is easy to overlook, on any Sorc-spec, is that if you execute instant abilities at the end of a cast or channel you save time. So you should always go "Force Lightning -> Death Field", "Force Lightning -> Affliction" or "Thundering Blast -> Chain Lightning".

On all the specs you get insta-cast abilities on procs (or lowered channel on FL), and it's important to remember that if you are still hard-casting them from time to time, you are simply doing it wrong. So always wait for the procs with these attacks.

Also, don't underestimate Recklessness. If the boss doesn't have a specific burn-phase, it's safe to use it on cooldown (as well as on the dummy of course).

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#20...MdoMutzZcM0M.2
Here is the spec I use. Rotations are pretty simple. Keep Affliction up at all times (but try not to overlap). Only cast Thundering Blast if Affliction is up (be careful with Recklessness, TB will exhaust a charge but not benefit from it). Force Lightning and Chain Lightning on proc. Lightning Strike is the basic attack, keep using it regularly so you constantly have 3 stacks of Subversion. (Also helps with Conduction, but it's so RNG that sometimes it just falls off even if you do nothing but spam LS and CL. ) Crushing Darkness and Shock are to be used when you have the others on CD and there's no danger of dropping Subversion and Conduction. Try to use only casts and channels when Polarity Shift is up.

My usual starting rotation is: Affliction -> Polarity Shift -> Lightning Strike -> LS -> LS -> Thundering Blast -> Crushing Darkness -> (Force Lightning if proc) -> LS until PS ends, and then continue with "Priorities".

Subversion and Lightning Effusion pretty much make it impossible for you to run out of Force in the course of a 5 minute battle, and with luck you could easily last 10 minutes - granted you don't have to double as a Bubbler, because then all Force management is out of the window. x) But Consumption -> Recklessness -> Unnatural Preservation is still viable for dps-sages to keep up if it starts to fall.
Maliris | Dela-jaakko | Sakkó | Sóppa | Farís | Hedelmâ | Sopraano | Hálal
Rai'chu | Eettinen Luomu | Välí | Véres | Jauhé | Banthan | Bas'so | Seven of-Nine
Haram | Weímar | Ethawn | Kuiva | Altto | Keíno | Luccía | Stilva | Tenorí | Delaráh | Baritoni
The Red EclipseThe Lihavuori Legacy

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
02.05.2013 , 03:15 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by adrunktick View Post
Hey Guys, I have recently gotten my sorcerer to 50 and got her geared up to full campaign with the exception of my offhand which is rakata and my main hand has a 63 hilt. I was under the impression that I could at least pull some decent numbers, but to my surprise, I haven't been able to pull more that around 1450 ( single target on test dummy ) any spec, lightning, madness, hybrid. Can someone actually share parses of theirs, not just throwing out self-proclaimed numbers?
I don't have a recent parse since I've been DPSing with a Vanguard for some time now, but, assuming you aren't

a) using a dread guard relic of boundless ages (dread guard, not black hole...the stats are totally different) on cooldown,
b) an exotech resolve stim,
c) an adrenal on cooldown,
d) there's no armor debuff on the target (sorcerors need another class to put such a debuff for them)
d) nobody's is in an ops frame with you bloodthirsting

your numbers aren't terribly light of what I'd expect them to be with a sorceror of any spec on an ops dummy with that gear distribution. I seem to remember topping out at roughly 1550 over 5 or so minutes in lightning spec at about your gear level (maybe a few more dread guard armorings) if I did not use any of those things to stat pad.

Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
02.05.2013 , 03:29 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
d) there's no armor debuff on the target (sorcerors need another class to put such a debuff for them)
d) nobody's is in an ops frame with you bloodthirsting
These are a no-no. It's the general consensus that no outside help should be applicable to your dummy parses. In actual operations the situation is different of course, but for measuring the classes own dps-potential, if you are helping with armor debuffs and Bloodthirst you are just skewing the numbers.
Maliris | Dela-jaakko | Sakkó | Sóppa | Farís | Hedelmâ | Sopraano | Hálal
Rai'chu | Eettinen Luomu | Välí | Véres | Jauhé | Banthan | Bas'so | Seven of-Nine
Haram | Weímar | Ethawn | Kuiva | Altto | Keíno | Luccía | Stilva | Tenorí | Delaráh | Baritoni
The Red EclipseThe Lihavuori Legacy

adrunktick's Avatar


adrunktick
02.05.2013 , 02:17 PM | #6
Okay, so I just decided to go back and give my dps another test on a low populated fleet instance :

1/12/28 (1570 dps)

http://www.torparse.com/a/123105/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

3/7/31 (1495 dps)

http://www.torparse.com/a/123115/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

3/31/7 (1428 dps)

http://www.torparse.com/a/123124/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

So these are the numbers that I just pulled on Operations Test dummy with 20 people on fleet, using Rakata Stim, Dreadguard +350 Power Relic and a Rakata Attack Adrenal.

If anyone can help me improve what's going on here, I do have to say that the top one does pull better numbers, but I get quite bored just spamming force lightning waiting for my dots to get reapplied.

adrunktick's Avatar


adrunktick
02.05.2013 , 02:34 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by I_Sithed_MyPants View Post
Here's 2 links to a 5 minute parse by a Sage doing 1790 dps on the Operations Dummy on the fleet, he's using a hybrid build which you can see in the second link to his AMR profile which will also show you his gear and stats:

2nd Edit: That is an old torparse link and the AMR profile has been updated since that torparse link was made, I'd expect he could do around 1820 - 1850 now.
Yes, that is an old parse and it was also prior to 1.6. However, that character is also equipped from head to toe in 150 rated gear, so his numbers are going to be higher.

I_Sithed_MyPants's Avatar


I_Sithed_MyPants
02.05.2013 , 04:13 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by adrunktick View Post
Yes, that is an old parse and it was also prior to 1.6. However, that character is also equipped from head to toe in 150 rated gear, so his numbers are going to be higher.
That parse was from when he was in full campaign gear.

Heres a link from my sorc, from when it was in a mix of 58/61 gear doing 1688 dps:
http://www.torparse.com/a/22639/time...074/0/Overview

You can compare the damage dealt graph and number to see what's different.

Could you also post your stats including bonus damage, crit chance, crit multiplier etc..

Would be helpful if you could make a character on Ask Mr Robot and then post it, then we can see the exact gear youre using, for example if your gear completely min/maxed for campaign level, or are you just using the mods you got in the campaign gear?
R.I.P <Antisocial Elitists>

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
02.05.2013 , 04:40 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Memo- View Post
These are a no-no. It's the general consensus that no outside help should be applicable to your dummy parses. In actual operations the situation is different of course, but for measuring the classes own dps-potential, if you are helping with armor debuffs and Bloodthirst you are just skewing the numbers.
No-no or not, if someone's producing numbers in the 1850s to 1900s with a sorc, that's what they're doing.

I_Sithed_MyPants's Avatar


I_Sithed_MyPants
02.05.2013 , 08:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by adrunktick View Post
I looked at the graphs for your log and my log that I linked, looks like you didn't use shock in your rotation, if you take chain shock using shock when you have spare force will increase your dps. It's more useful then Parasitism, an almost useless heal.

A quick comparison of the 2 damage charts, both using the same talent build & the same 5 minute duration:
Yours: http://www.torparse.com/a/123105/tim...0/Damage+Dealt
Mine: http://www.torparse.com/a/22639/time...074/0/Overview

Yours
Lightning Strike: 2105dmg (1 hit so i'll assume miss click)
Crushing Darkness: 29572
Death Field: 62344
Crushed (Force): 66771
Affliction (Force): 67640
Shocked (Force Lightning): 244283
Shock: Not used
TOTAL: 472715
APM: 27.8
Crit: 44%
Crit dmg: 291499


Mine
Lightning Strike: Not used
Crushing Darkness: 28168
Death Field: 67593
Crushed (Force): 65977
Affliction (Force): 64396
Shocked (Force Lightning): 247052
Shock: 39420
TOTAL: 512606
APM: 30.35
Crit: 40%
Crit dmg: 293219


Looking at this shows:
1. Your crit might be a bit too high, and your surge rating might be a bit too low.
2. Your actions per minute might be too low to increase dps, try speeding up your rotation.
3. Both of your dots & force lighting did similar / more damage than mine so your power doesnt seem to be a problem.
3. You didn't use Shock / Chain shock which adds almost 40k damage.
4. Make sure you use recklessness correctly, always use one charge on Death Field, and the other charge on Force Lightning, never on anything else.
5. If you take the 40k damage from Shock / Chain Shock away from my total, our totals are similar. Use Chain Shock, it will increase your dps.
R.I.P <Antisocial Elitists>