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The Scrapper's Handbook: A PvP Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
The Scrapper's Handbook: A PvP Guide

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
02.04.2013 , 09:41 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
The ones who do the best are the ones who quickly counter my movement impairs and stay at range from me. As with Scrappers in general, luck is a big factor in situations like our abilities don't crit when we need them to.
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Exactly. I mean yes if all of our big ability crited I could see the sorc/sage dropping in the scenario I described, but failing that they simply have more ways to stay away from us than we do on them. If we can't hold them within 4 meters for 3-4 GCDs (and there is no reason we should be able to if they are willing to blow everything including CC breaker) we can't win the engagement unless they mess up. LOS just makes it worse.

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.04.2013 , 09:41 PM | #12
Nah, don't know anything you wouldn't. Actually, I'm more casual than anything, so you probably would know more than me. I just thought I read it somewhere and it stuck out enough for me to remember it.

I do see PvE Scrappers running around with like 40% crit all the time, so I can't imagine the DR would be as low as 30%, unless that pertains to PvP DR, so it makes me curious.
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randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.04.2013 , 09:47 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
Exactly. I mean yes if big ability crited I could see the sorc/sage dropping in the scenario I described, but failing that they simply have more ways to stay away from us than we do on them. If we can't hold them within 4 meters for 3-4 GCDs (and there is no reason we should be able to if they are willing to blow everything including CC breaker) we can't win the engagement unless they mess up. LOS just makes it worse.
Ok, good point. I also use more dynamic rotations than just falling into cookie-cutter fashion, so that might be it where I gain an upper hand. Being that pvp is not scripted, I feel you need to be dynamic and switch it up on the fly as best to your ability.

There is this one sage that my guildy always goes on about as being the best. My buddy plays a sage and scrapper as well, but regards this sage as being the best around. Never fought against him so can't say, but I've fought with him a few times and seen some numbers that other sages/sorcs just don't put out as per my own experience. Probably talking like top 0.1% of his class, so probably wouldn't be a fun fight.
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AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.04.2013 , 09:50 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
Ok, good point. I also use more dynamic rotations than just falling into cookie-cutter fashion, so that might be it where I gain an upper hand. Being that pvp is not scripted, I feel you need to be dynamic and switch it up on the fly as best to your ability.

There is this one sage that my guildy always goes on about as being the best. My buddy plays a sage and scrapper as well, but regards this sage as being the best around. Never fought against him so can't say, but I've fought with him a few times and seen some numbers that other sages/sorcs just don't put out as per my own experience. Probably talking like top 0.1% of his class, so probably wouldn't be a fun fight.
what is his name? is he on potf?

sorcs are a pain if they are bubble, the best time to pop their bubble is right when they cast it. if you absolutely need to kill that sorc dead pop that break and stun and keep going, if cc break is down, the cc of the bubble is roughly like 2 secs, and our knock down is 1.5 secs, so if you are fast you can get a sever tendon in before they are too far then probe and continue to hurt them. Either way good or not lots of escape means, doesn't mean unkillable, just a little longer of a fight.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
02.04.2013 , 09:57 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelofCain View Post
what is his name? is he on potf?

sorcs are a pain if they are bubble, the best time to pop their bubble is right when they cast it. if you absolutely need to kill that sorc dead pop that break and stun and keep going, if cc break is down, the cc of the bubble is roughly like 2 secs, and our knock down is 1.5 secs, so if you are fast you can get a sever tendon in before they are too far then probe and continue to hurt them. Either way good or not lots of escape means, doesn't mean unkillable, just a little longer of a fight.
Their bubble stun lasts 3 seconds so it is gives them roughly a global advantage over you if they are bubble stun. But I'm saying even if they aren't how do you keep on in melee long enough to kill them if they do what I explained in my first post?

And if you mean to kill them from a range as the bold suggests how do you do get through their health pool before bubble comes back up? (at that point you'll never out dmg them before they kill you from a range). Assume you opened on them right as they re bubbled of course.

Quote: Originally Posted by randiesel View Post
Ok, good point. I also use more dynamic rotations than just falling into cookie-cutter fashion, so that might be it where I gain an upper hand. Being that pvp is not scripted, I feel you need to be dynamic and switch it up on the fly as best to your ability.
Agreed pvp is dynamic and has no fixed rotation. But it is ultimately a game of moves and counter moves. The way I see it, even if you scramble the order moves are used in my original post, they come out with one more way to keep distance on us that we do to keep them in range. Once they get range and vanish is on CD, unless they have less than 15% health, no los, bubble still on lockout, and the insta heal +recklessness on cd, they win

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.04.2013 , 10:24 PM | #16
Hey OP, there is also a potential 0/30/11 build, sorta an AoE- or DoT-Scrapper if you will.

You'd lose out on 9% cunning and a hefty armor pen buff for DoTs and short cooldown AoE, but I'd bet if luck had it your way it could out damage in a long Voidstar or Civil War. I've never actually specced into that to try it out of course, only thought of trying it.
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randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.04.2013 , 10:28 PM | #17
Sorry Hallow, he's on JC. See man, I told you to make a toon on my side, you'd find some really good challenges over there =P.

But anyhow, I'm sure there are a bunch on POTF, I'm just too new to the server to have happened across any of them.

I can tell I've piqued your interest though. *Force Persuade* You know you want to level a Scrapper on Jedi Covenant...
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ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.04.2013 , 10:34 PM | #18
Thanks for the responses guys. I will definitely be working on the Warzone section to get that finished (Going to start right now, in fact).

Re: Crit Chance
I keep my crit at around 34% buffed, with both Sage and Smuggler buffs active plus my Rakata stim (not to mention full Datacrons and Companion boosts). 35% is technically the diminishing returns point as far as I know, but 34% is as much as you need to get SF to the 50%+ Crit Chance range. I prefer the rest in Power, which also necessarily means an arbitrary amount of Surge (the Power and Surge stats are on the same mods).

Re: Sorcerers and Bubble Stun
I need to add this to my opening post, but if you are trying to 1v1 a sorcerer who is guarding a node, you need to wait for their Bubble to expire. Even the best Sorcerers get bored while guarding a node and might forget to rebubble right away. That is your time to strike so you can avoid that first 3 second stun. Other than that, Hallowed is totally right: Right after that bubble goes up you need to strike, so they can't immediately rebubble after the knockdown. Bubble has a really silly 5s CD, so you need to put in a lot of damage in between the shields.

Re: Fighting good Sorcerers
If you go up against a sorcerer and get stomped the first time, you need to switch things up for the second round. Let's assume you can't reach the Sorc before his Escape comes back out (if you can, he can't break out of your Dirty Kick). So you need to start from scratch with all CDs up.

Let's make things even harder and give the Sorc a bubble that stuns you after SF.

1. SF + FR. Sorc knocked down for 1.5s. You are blinded for 3s.
2. Sorc uses Force Speed and runs away while you become unstunned.
3. Pop Sneak and run towards your opponent, throwing Thermal Grenade
4. Sorc uses Force Slow when you are in Range
5. Counter with FLASHBANG!!!

At this point, Sorc does NOT have full resolve (your Knockdown resolve has dissipated). If Sorc does not use his CC break, you are going to run up to him, drop Sabotage Charge (Flashbang still working), fire Vital Shot (no DOT tick until the next GCD), and then fire Backblast + FR. By now the Sorc is really wishing he had used his CC break. Keep kiting and fighting until his resolve starts to drop. Then you can either restealth to finish him off or just use Dirty Kick, force the CC break, and follow up with more roots and melee attacks.

If the Sorc DOES use his CC break on the Flashbang (he probably will), keep running up to him with Sneak and fire Tendon Blast to keep him rooted. Sorc will probably stun. Crack the stun, rush forwar and Dirty Kick before he can use his Whirlwind. Now you have 4 seconds to stack SC and BB + FR, all while Vital Shot is still ticking. After he comes out, if you can't finish the fight right away and are worried about whirlwind, restealth to finish him off.

I am sure a decent DPS sorc could get into this conversation and devise yet another hypothetical for surviving our combos, and then we could brainstorm STILL ANOTHER hypothetical to beat him. Thankfully, PvP is more dynamic than that (As we have all pointed out), so if you keep these tips in mind, we should have all the more tools at our disposal.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.04.2013 , 10:39 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Even the best Sorcerers get bored while guarding a node...
I know absolutely nothing about sorcs and their abilities, but I KNOW you've happened across the sorc sitting there draining his own life to heal back up while he's solo guarding a node, right? Open up with him Shoot First at 30% or whatever he's at and down in whatever you throw at him next.

One of those magic moments...
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AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.04.2013 , 10:45 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
Their bubble stun lasts 3 seconds so it is gives them roughly a global advantage over you if they are bubble stun. But I'm saying even if they aren't how do you keep on in melee long enough to kill them if they do what I explained in my first post?



sorry 3 secs, I am one of those cybertech baddies that will throw one at distance and tag a sorc. usually a sorc will always try to run as soon as they get up you can also tag them there instead of shiv. it's all a matter of how you look at stuns and distance.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator