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Dark Charge Needs a Change / Buff!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Dark Charge Needs a Change / Buff!

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
02.01.2013 , 07:34 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
The numbers were just random. It can also be 1% or 0.5%, my point was the mechanic implied.

But still, is 4860 too much ? Maybe, but that's probably not so much. That's almost the same amount of health a Sorc bubble provides.
And I ask you seriously : Will a Shadow/Assassin oftenly receive 5 Force/Tech attacks at once during Force shroud, I don't think so. And even considering parrying, shielding, can a Shadow/Assassin have 27K HP without sacrifying defense and shielding ? And do not forget Trauma, as this kind of situation is unlikely to occur in PvE.
I'm in full-61, sitting at 30,6% defense, 65% shield(with DW), 58,8% absorb with a stim, using one WH Relic with static Defense + swapping out the other relic depending on the encounter, but for most fights I use the Absorb-proc-relic.

Also you shouldn't think about Trauma, Trauma is irrelevant there.
The problem is that this would make us hilariously overpowered in PvE.

Quote: Originally Posted by ckoneful View Post
Without sacrificing any mitigation you can get about 26.6k HP atm. I do doubt the 5 F/T attacks at once though.
Boy I would gladly stand in one of those funky Lightning-bubbles in the tank-fight in EC if I can get an extra 2800 HP out of it over the course of 5s(they tick every second iirc).

Or a better example: Kephess' Gift of the Masters.

Something funny that just popped into my mind: Pop Overcharge Saber and you get 5600 in 5s. Neat.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
02.01.2013 , 08:59 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
Personally I agree with your statements.

That's why come up with this :
- Heals from Dark Charge heals for 2% of max health.
- Heals from Dark Charge occurs when parrying, deflecting, resisting and shielding. No CD.

With the heals being a percentage, it make the stance scale with gear, and PvE difficulty.
With making the heals occuring on incoming attacks, it make the survivability from a passive skill, entierly passive.
With the heals having no CD, survivability keeps linear while the number of opponents increase.
With the heals being reliant on tanking mechanics, it avoids player from using Endurance only and forces them to use a minimum of Defense/Shield. In addition, it lowers suvivability of tanks using DPS gear.
Driving it off max HP I've already addressed but had another thought. We are already the best F/T I/E damage tanks by far. Scaling our self heal with max HP would push us even further ahead, especially if you run a max HP gear set for those fights.

Having it come from mitigation won't work because there are 2 situations in most Ops:
- Lots of small mitigateable attacks which would result in massive self healing
- Few large un-mitigateable (read F/T) attacks which would result in a 2% chance to self heal. This is especially noticable in Kephess the Undying HM where our self heal helps to offset the extra damage we take from lower K/E mitigation.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
02.01.2013 , 10:14 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
I'm in full-61, sitting at 30,6% defense, 65% shield(with DW), 58,8% absorb with a stim, using one WH Relic with static Defense + swapping out the other relic depending on the encounter, but for most fights I use the Absorb-proc-relic.

Also you shouldn't think about Trauma, Trauma is irrelevant there.
The problem is that this would make us hilariously overpowered in PvE.



Boy I would gladly stand in one of those funky Lightning-bubbles in the tank-fight in EC if I can get an extra 2800 HP out of it over the course of 5s(they tick every second iirc).

Or a better example: Kephess' Gift of the Masters.

Something funny that just popped into my mind: Pop Overcharge Saber and you get 5600 in 5s. Neat.
Get the Dread Guard healing relic. It works wonders as a Shadow/Assassin tank and is our best relic overall.

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
02.01.2013 , 10:23 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by ckoneful View Post
Get the Dread Guard healing relic. It works wonders as a Shadow/Assassin tank and is our best relic overall.
I've got every defensive relic in the game right now, including this one.
I still haven't tested it in higher tier-content.
If I'm tanking bosses that primarily deal I/E damage I put in the healing relic of course.

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
02.02.2013 , 12:53 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
I've got every defensive relic in the game right now, including this one.
I still haven't tested it in higher tier-content.
If I'm tanking bosses that primarily deal I/E damage I put in the healing relic of course.
You should never take it off. It contributes more to survival than any other tanking relic for Assassin.
Srs'bsns, GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk
5/5 Nightmare Power DF & DP
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"

steave's Avatar


steave
02.02.2013 , 02:06 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
You should never take it off. It contributes more to survival than any other tanking relic for Assassin.
In theory, yes.
In practice? Some of it will be overhealing, and it's just not as reliable and predictable as standard mitigation relics.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
02.02.2013 , 07:01 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
Driving it off max HP I've already addressed but had another thought. We are already the best F/T I/E damage tanks by far. Scaling our self heal with max HP would push us even further ahead, especially if you run a max HP gear set for those fights.

Having it come from mitigation won't work because there are 2 situations in most Ops:
- Lots of small mitigateable attacks which would result in massive self healing
- Few large un-mitigateable (read F/T) attacks which would result in a 2% chance to self heal. This is especially noticable in Kephess the Undying HM where our self heal helps to offset the extra damage we take from lower K/E mitigation.
When you say that it will push Shadows/Assassins further at being the best against Force and Tech and then state that you'll lose most of the survivability in fights like Kephess which imply Force and Tech, you contradict yourself.

Whatever, like I said later, it was assuming that Tanks will someday have the right to defend Force and Tech with their stats. If the stats were to work against these attacks, a Juggernaut maxxing his mitigation/avoidance will have roughly the same percentages as an Assassin who maxxes his HP, whatever the attack type is. The only difference will be that one will have armor and mitigation mechanics while the other one has healing. Basically it would be the same situation that we have now. So it's not a big deal. Assassins would not be so much better tanks unless the percentage of healing provided is too big. The 2% I proposed may be too much, but it can be 0.5% or 1%, or a set value, or a value that changes depending on Willpower. As long as all the healing components roughly make up for the lack of mitigation on incoming damage when comparing to Juggs and PT, it's good.

ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
02.02.2013 , 08:12 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
In theory, yes.
In practice? Some of it will be overhealing, and it's just not as reliable and predictable as standard mitigation relics.
And some, if not quite a bit, of the absorb proc could be completely useless. The DG healing relic is amazing and adds quite a bit to your self healing. Run MoX and raid with it, watch how much healing it does.

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
02.02.2013 , 12:38 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
In theory, yes.
In practice? Some of it will be overhealing, and it's just not as reliable and predictable as standard mitigation relics.
In practice, if you are getting significant issues with overhealing, you are either not taking enough damage to stress your own healing abilities (and relic choice is moot), your group is not taking enough damage to stress your healers and they're overhealing out of boredom (and relic choice is moot), or your healers don't know how to heal Assassins properly (and the problem is fixing your healers, not fixing your relics).

In practice, the healing relic procs nearly on CD due to Dark Charge and Force Lightning, so it's as reliable and predictable as it's going to get. Certainly more reliable and predictable than the absorb proc relic.

Nice other nice thing about a healing relic compared to a mitigation relic is that it works regardless of attack type, since it's not tied at all to an enemy attacking you. So long as you're actively tanking, it's doing its job. If you can't dodge or shield, any other secondary relic is sitting there looking pretty and giving you HP.
Srs'bsns, GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk
5/5 Nightmare Power DF & DP
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"

Helig's Avatar


Helig
02.02.2013 , 01:07 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Berronaxftw View Post
I know my rotation, i just would really like to see a sith assassin tank to be more about the self heals
Self-healing doesn't scale well with content. If you base the class around self-healing (not mitigation/avoidance) and Operations, you make it overpowered in solo/small-scale groups. Likewise, balanced around self-healing in small-scale gameplay, it will be at a disadvantage in Operations, where damage values are much higher.

Currently, Tankasins are balanced around short recovery damage type-specific cooldowns and, to a lesser degree, shielding. Self-healing is just a minor bonus, that's it.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie