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Dreadguard proc relic or use relic for gunnery?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Dreadguard proc relic or use relic for gunnery?

Keypek's Avatar


Keypek
01.28.2013 , 10:27 AM | #1
Trying to decide on my second relic for my noob gunnery commando. I did a lot of pvp leveling so I got an EWH power relic for the passive buff already. But have the free battlemaster one as my second. Going to grind out for one of the daily relics for my second to replace the BM since I know technically they are both BIS according to most people. But since I already have an EWH I'm only going to bother getting one. Is there a big difference between the kinetic proc dreadguard relic and the /use dreadguard power relic? Would probably prefer the proc since it requires less effort watching but if there is a big enough difference will get the on use one instead.
K'mpek/Keypek or some variation
Vanguard dps for nim progression. 55s=1 of everything.
Undercon__ ICE Breaker>Corellian Run>The Shadowlands

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
01.28.2013 , 12:23 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Keypek View Post
Trying to decide on my second relic for my noob gunnery commando. I did a lot of pvp leveling so I got an EWH power relic for the passive buff already. But have the free battlemaster one as my second. Going to grind out for one of the daily relics for my second to replace the BM since I know technically they are both BIS according to most people. But since I already have an EWH I'm only going to bother getting one. Is there a big difference between the kinetic proc dreadguard relic and the /use dreadguard power relic? Would probably prefer the proc since it requires less effort watching but if there is a big enough difference will get the on use one instead.
Real average DPS from them depends on a lot of factors like the length of the fight and whether you can remember to click it. The best/worst case theory crafting is not all that different between them...they come up pretty close, at least in the threads I have seen. There may be a slight edge to the proc relics.

My preference though is the on-use power one, since end game raids right now (TfB HM, EC NiM) are full of burn phases that require dealing a lot of damage in a short period of time.

If you go for the proc one, be sure you get one that benefits from the commando's tech critical chance...i.e, internal or kinetic damage. The elemental and energy relics benefit from force critical chance, which you don't have.

Keypek's Avatar


Keypek
01.28.2013 , 01:59 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by NoFishing View Post
Real average DPS from them depends on a lot of factors like the length of the fight and whether you can remember to click it. The best/worst case theory crafting is not all that different between them...they come up pretty close, at least in the threads I have seen. There may be a slight edge to the proc relics.

My preference though is the on-use power one, since end game raids right now (TfB HM, EC NiM) are full of burn phases that require dealing a lot of damage in a short period of time.

If you go for the proc one, be sure you get one that benefits from the commando's tech critical chance...i.e, internal or kinetic damage. The elemental and energy relics benefit from force critical chance, which you don't have.
Yeah basically what I had been seeing as well. Was going to get a kinetic one if I did get the proc one. Can't decide how lazy I want to be about having a use or a proc lol.
K'mpek/Keypek or some variation
Vanguard dps for nim progression. 55s=1 of everything.
Undercon__ ICE Breaker>Corellian Run>The Shadowlands

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
02.15.2013 , 02:08 AM | #4
The problem I have with Proc vs. Click relics is this:

From what I've seen from theorycrafters, you have to be maximizing your use of the click relic over the course of the fight to beat the proc relic. That means clicking it right away (or in our case, after 3 Grav Rounds but before procced Full Auto, HIB, and Demo Round), and I *already* tend to pull aggro in any given fight by the end of my first full rotation. If I click that, I will DEFINITELY pull off right away, which in some current fights can cause a wipe even if the tank is expecting it.

On top of that, it's another cooldown to get used to using. If I'm not using it on cooldown every time, I'll be doing less DPS than I would have with the Proc relic (or even a static power relic) anyway.

Now, on fights with specific burn phases where the boss takes more damage, it may be more beneficial to use a click relic. But even then, you'd have to save it specifically for the burn phase, which means you're doing that much less DPS the rest of the fight (essentially, wasting it). Someone would have to do the math and see if it amounts to more average DPS over the course of the fight - say, on Kephess the Undying in TFB, or the walker on Kephess in EC.

The only fight where I can see using it continually being worthwhile (I.E., a continuous vulnerable boss) would be the Fabricator in KP if you keep him lit up the whole time, and then you'd probably pull MAJOR aggro.

Furiel's Avatar


Furiel
02.15.2013 , 01:08 PM | #5
I used to have the same problem with pulling aggro during the DR/HiB part of my first time through the rotation myself. I've gotten into the habit of using Diversion during the GCD of DR before I hit HiB and that seems to help alot. Occasionally the boss will maybe take a step toward me before he turns back, but since I started doing that I can't remember the last time I face tanked a boss in a guild raid unless there was a dead tank.
Furiel Plush
Cardinal and Raid Coordinator of The Church of Alvis

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
02.15.2013 , 06:12 PM | #6
Personally, I use HIB before DR - keeps your ammo higher, so it's better for regen.

That said, I've pulled aggro *before* the HIB/DR part of my rotation. Regularly. I've taken to (sometimes) hitting my aggro dump after the 3 GRs/FA.

ladwar's Avatar


ladwar
02.16.2013 , 01:57 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
Personally, I use HIB before DR - keeps your ammo higher, so it's better for regen.

That said, I've pulled aggro *before* the HIB/DR part of my rotation. Regularly. I've taken to (sometimes) hitting my aggro dump after the 3 GRs/FA.
i have had this problem, what i do is start with sticky nade and FA then go into GR with tech override&click relic and hit diversion after HiB and Dr. u can do it before if ur tank is not as geared as u are. i personally do HiB after DR as diversion is my next move and usally followed up by FA for a longer ammo regen time.

BTW proc with a click relic seems to be the best fit for most boss fights. the only fight where the clicky relic doesn't do well in is the operator boss in TFB as the shield isn't down for more then 30sec at a time.

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
02.16.2013 , 03:41 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by ladwar View Post
i have had this problem, what i do is start with sticky nade and FA then go into GR with tech override&click relic and hit diversion after HiB and Dr. u can do it before if ur tank is not as geared as u are. i personally do HiB after DR as diversion is my next move and usally followed up by FA for a longer ammo regen time.

BTW proc with a click relic seems to be the best fit for most boss fights. the only fight where the clicky relic doesn't do well in is the operator boss in TFB as the shield isn't down for more then 30sec at a time.
Do you use any Alacrity (in your spec, not in your gear)? With my build the Tech Override won't really save much (if any) time in my rotation because my Tracer Missile casts in about 1.5 seconds anyway. It'll hit a tiny bit sooner if fired instant, but the GCD'll keep the overall time the same. I mostly save that for when I have to move and fire.

I don't usually use Explosive Dart (sticky grenade) unless I have to move and all my other instants are on cooldown, and we've already discussed the opening with Full Auto thing.

I just have found that click relics don't work well for me aggro-wise. ::shrugs:: I prefer having the DG Proc relic and a static power relic, it's what works for me.

Strainge's Avatar


Strainge
02.16.2013 , 04:03 AM | #9
If you're having that much trouble pulling aggro you're probably attacking to soon after the tank pulls. It's best to let the tank get in 3-4 attacks before you start. Not saying you don't know what you're doing, just from my experience DPS attack way too soon with a 'zerg it full throttle' mentality.

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
02.16.2013 , 04:05 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Strainge View Post
If you're having that much trouble pulling aggro you're probably attacking to soon after the tank pulls. It's best to let the tank get in 3-4 attacks before you start. Not saying you don't know what you're doing, just from my experience DPS attack way too soon with a 'zerg it full throttle' mentality.
I'm not now. Learned that. But if I threw in a click relic I would.