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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.18.2013 , 03:52 PM | #2531
Quote: Originally Posted by Joushigun View Post
Today, yes, but fifty years ago, cars were designed by men period end of discussion. Women were heavily pushed to do things like not design cars.
I can't find the *********** link now, BUT

It used to be that all computer programmers were women - back in the 60's - but there were a few men programmers. Men programmers got sick of their work being perceived as "women's work", so they deliberately started to drive women out of the programming field, and made up the airs of it being an "all boy's club", so that they wouldn't be associated with doing something as demeaning as "women's work".

It's interesting to think that something women are supposed to do in the home - cook, take care of the sick - suddenly becomes a male only career when put in a professional environment: chefs, doctors.

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.18.2013 , 04:14 PM | #2532
Quote: Originally Posted by fabiyun View Post
Ehm what? Even in our Universe things aren't that sexist. Did you know the car you're driving in is designed by a whole team of designers, including women, gay men and trans people? Why would the Star Wars universe be more sexist then ours?
That was in reference to the Bettie Pagebots and Guri - I'm just saying, "let's design this thing so ***** can be stuck in it" usually isn't the result of female-dominated design teams.

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
11.18.2013 , 04:24 PM | #2533
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I can't find the *********** link now, BUT

It used to be that all computer programmers were women - back in the 60's - but there were a few men programmers. Men programmers got sick of their work being perceived as "women's work", so they deliberately started to drive women out of the programming field, and made up the airs of it being an "all boy's club", so that they wouldn't be associated with doing something as demeaning as "women's work".

It's interesting to think that something women are supposed to do in the home - cook, take care of the sick - suddenly becomes a male only career when put in a professional environment: chefs, doctors.
Just an FYI, "computer" was originally the title of a job primarily performed by women. Men were still the "programmers". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Computers for a random example, there are plenty more.

/popcorn
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

copperjack's Avatar


copperjack
11.18.2013 , 04:25 PM | #2534
If a droid has a neutral appearance and is referred to as it then how is it still coed as male?

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.18.2013 , 04:29 PM | #2535
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
Just an FYI, "computer" was originally the title of a job primarily performed by women. Men were still the "programmers". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Computers for a random example, there are plenty more.

/popcorn
1960's, not 1860's.

And I'm well aware of the origin of the term "computer". But thank you for your attempt to troll? I guess at least you made yourself some popcorn? Well done, I guess?



So, about the perceived "maleness" of the Sith and Jedi orders - like I said, I've not read the EU material where this is pretty stamped out, but I imagine that the majority of writers are (cishet, probably white) men? What do you guys think about the "maleness" of the Star Wars setting?


Quote: Originally Posted by copperjack View Post
If a droid has a neutral appearance and is referred to as it then how is it still coed as male?
Noooooooo this would have been perfect D:

Argh - I knows there's some stuff on masculine-coded stuff being perceived as gender neutral because "man don't have gender" (gender being something attributed to women, as we say "gender studies", "gender violence" etc.) but I can't find the right stuff at the moment.)

It harkens to the idea that femaleness is explicit - it's noticeable and it's different. Maleness, vice-versa, is the standard, it just "is". A lot of what is perceived androgyny is a lack of noticeable sexual features (almost akin to prepubescence): small breasts, slim hips, no discernible waist &etc. - "male" clothing is also perceived to be more androgynous, in general, sharp lines, trousers, that sort of stuff.

It's asking whether the Star Wars universe perceives "maleness" to be a default and "femaleness" to be an other, to what the genderless automatons would then be perceived as (and, remember, it's rare they assign themselves these, it's forced on them) because in the mainstream of our world, genderless-ness is generally more associated with a certain amount of masculinity than it is with femininity - if, say, an otherwise genderless child is being raised, they might show a favouring of coded-feminine things and people will go "Ah, yes, this child wishes to be a girl. She will be a girl now." but there are less things that would be inherently coded-masculine of what said child could be become interested in - we do like to categorise children into "definitely boy" and "definitely girl" and... hrm :/

Basically, if we have male as the assumed default, it's more likely that the genderless droids will be ascribed "masculinity", than "femininity", because the "feminine" is perceived as something "other", and not a standard. Make sense?

eartharioch's Avatar


eartharioch
11.18.2013 , 04:36 PM | #2536
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
1960's, not 1860's.

And I'm well aware of the origin of the term "computer". But thank you for your attempt to troll? I guess at least you made yourself some popcorn? Well done, I guess?
Not trolling, I just thought it was relevant. Yes, it was from an earlier period than you quoted, I wasn't trying to contradict you, if anything, what I shared supports your comments about the [1960's] perception of computing as "women's work".

The /popcorn wasn't because I found myself amusing, I just assumed most people in this thread would be [justifiably] outraged at such a cavalier attitude, and would have interesting things to say about it. I've read this thread (and its predecessors) for well over a year, if my intent was to troll, I think I could do much better.
Q: What did the five fingers say to the face?
A: It's a SLAP!

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.18.2013 , 04:52 PM | #2537
Quote: Originally Posted by eartharioch View Post
Not trolling, I just thought it was relevant. Yes, it was from an earlier period than you quoted, I wasn't trying to contradict you, if anything, what I shared supports your comments about the [1960's] perception of computing as "women's work".

The /popcorn wasn't because I found myself amusing, I just assumed most people in this thread would be [justifiably] outraged at such a cavalier attitude, and would have interesting things to say about it. I've read this thread (and its predecessors) for well over a year, if my intent was to troll, I think I could do much better.
Fair enough - I see most people grab /popcorn either because they see a flame fest coming or they just started one.

Programming itself was the brainchild of a woman - Ada Lovelace - but it's still seen as a man's domain. Curious, as well, that a woman invented science-fiction, which was then also furthered by another woman*, and yet we women, apparently, don't "do" science fiction.

*or you could call that science-horror. Margaret Cavendish coined her novel as "fancy"

copperjack's Avatar


copperjack
11.18.2013 , 04:59 PM | #2538
I would agree with you in this situation if every droid were referred to as 'he' unless given an obviously feminine voice or shape like SCORPIO. But given that the majority of the droids are referred to as 'it' even when they do have a male voice I just don't see it. The default for droids here is no gender, not male.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.18.2013 , 05:02 PM | #2539
Quote: Originally Posted by copperjack View Post
I would agree with you in this situation if every droid were referred to as 'he' unless given an obviously feminine voice or shape like SCORPIO. But given that the majority of the droids are referred to as 'it' even when they do have a male voice I just don't see it. The default for droids here is no gender, not male.
Alright then, that's the answer I was looking for.

copperjack's Avatar


copperjack
11.18.2013 , 05:17 PM | #2540
I'm curious though, I never actually interacted with SCORPIO beyond what was required but does the game use female pronouns for her? I would assume they do but I never actually checked.