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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.30.2013 , 04:21 PM | #2051
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
I've never heard "heteronormative" used in that context before. "Patriarchal," yes.
Weird, I hear (read) it all the time. Yes, it is also sometimes in reference to the Patriarchy, which benefits from the enforcement of gender roles like that.

Perhaps you're more scholastic than me.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
09.30.2013 , 04:24 PM | #2052
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Weird, I hear (read) it all the time. Yes, it is also sometimes in reference to the Patriarchy, which benefits from the enforcement of gender roles like that.

Perhaps you're more scholastic than me.
I doubt that I am, sadly. I've only ever read "heteronormative" used in the context of the specific idea of the superiority/prevalence of heterosexual relationships, which may or may not have anything to do with the participants upholding patriarchal gender roles.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
09.30.2013 , 04:31 PM | #2053
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
I doubt that I am, sadly. I've only ever read "heteronormative" used in the context of the specific idea of the superiority/prevalence of heterosexual relationships, which may or may not have anything to do with the participants upholding patriarchal gender roles.
It's probably been adopted and expanded, but of course has the undercurrent of heterosexism to it that comes from the original meaning and use, but still it would arguably be applicable not only to relationships with non-binary individuals, but also homosexual relationships, as those gender roles are still being ignored or deliberately refuted. Still then, the cry of "HOW WRITE HETERONORMATIVE GENDER ROLES?!" is applicable to Austin in that they can't write homosexual relationships because the gender roles they're using otherwise aren't necessarily applicable.

It should be noted that Lord Cytharat was written by Alexander Freed before he life Austin to work freelance, and he was the writer responsible for the Imperial Agent story line, which is considered to be the best and, at least to my mind, has some of the most interesting NPCs and companions. Including the oft-cited bisexual Kaliyo.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
09.30.2013 , 04:45 PM | #2054
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
It's probably been adopted and expanded, but of course has the undercurrent of heterosexism to it that comes from the original meaning and use, but still it would arguably be applicable not only to relationships with non-binary individuals, but also homosexual relationships, as those gender roles are still being ignored or deliberately refuted. Still then, the cry of "HOW WRITE HETERONORMATIVE GENDER ROLES?!" is applicable to Austin in that they can't write homosexual relationships because the gender roles they're using otherwise aren't necessarily applicable.

It should be noted that Lord Cytharat was written by Alexander Freed before he life Austin to work freelance, and he was the writer responsible for the Imperial Agent story line, which is considered to be the best and, at least to my mind, has some of the most interesting NPCs and companions. Including the oft-cited bisexual Kaliyo.
Quite frankly, Kaliyo isn't reason enough for me to think any better of this Freed person if she's not actually available for the PC to romance; that's almost worse, really.

copperjack's Avatar


copperjack
09.30.2013 , 10:49 PM | #2055
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Quite frankly, Kaliyo isn't reason enough for me to think any better of this Freed person if she's not actually available for the PC to romance; that's almost worse, really.
Given that there was no SGR in any of the storylines that makes it seem like it was a decision somewhere among the higher ups rather than anything that the writers could choose. I think the next best thing to SGR is having non romanceable gay/bi/whatever characters anyway, so it puts him a step ahead of the other storylines at least.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
10.01.2013 , 12:47 AM | #2056
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Quite frankly, Kaliyo isn't reason enough for me to think any better of this Freed person if she's not actually available for the PC to romance; that's almost worse, really.
Oh, of course, you don't know!

During beta, people were asking where the SGRA options were. Bioware, at the time, said they had to be cut from the development schedule due to time reasons, to get the game out for EA's release date. During the Guild Summit of May 2012, Daniel Erikson said that they had companions in mind for who they wanted to make as SGRA-available. However, almost everyone from development was made redundant in April/May and, well, now story content's no longer being supported/written.

So... yeah. That's (part) of the origin of this whole mess.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
10.01.2013 , 01:20 AM | #2057
Right, some old info:

Natashina's FAQ Post

and

Chaac's Timeline for SGRA Information and Events

While it might seem that these are outdated, we have so little information and have had so little communication that, while some of this was posted nearly a year ago, it's unfortunately still current. Natashina also lists a lot of contributors - everyone's left. If you think you're coming into this thread with new ideas like "oh, let's just wait and see" or "why don't they just remove the gender mark on the convo's" or "why don't the put them on CM", it's been discussed. Five or six times, it's been discussed. You will be hard pressed to find a position which has not been discussed, at length, in any of the six iterations of this thread that exist.

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
10.01.2013 , 02:53 PM | #2058
Quote: Originally Posted by copperjack View Post
He gets really weird with any armour that shows skin. He wear the female one of Darth Sion's I think, but with a weird sort of shirt thing under it, and I know he has at least one other but I can't think of what it is. Mira's jacket maybe? He wears the basic version of any duster that is supposed to show his chest and I think he also has an entirely unique version of the minimalist gladiator chestguard that covers up any exposed skin. I really don't know what's going on with his model at all.
Yeah, and the Relaxed Jumpsuit looks all glitched on him.

Even more so, in all ship (and many off-ship) cutscenes if you put him in the covert energy torso or even no chest item at all he inexplicably has his default starter gear chest piece on.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

Quething's Avatar


Quething
10.04.2013 , 10:25 AM | #2059
Anyone played through Oricon yet? There's an interesting line Pub-side.
Spoiler


It's a small thing but I like it a lot. The ability to make our avatars queer is, of course, hugely important, impossible to overstate in its impact, but when your PC and her love interest are the only gays in the galaxy it still feels alienating and weird. It's like playing as a black Cousland in Dragon Age; sure, the game will let you do it, but your parents are white, every NPC you meet in the entire game is white, and it gets to the point where you might as well have installed a mod that lets you play as a Moogle, you couldn't be more obviously totally foreign to the actual lore. Any sense that you and your minority status actually have a place in this fantasy world is destroyed because there's no continuity to it, no evidence beyond your own completely unique PC status. So something like this, as small and offhand as it is, feels so powerful to me. It's queer characters who exist on their own, who have nothing whatsoever to do with you the player, who are just part of the natural texture of the game world.

I mean. Still waiting on the actual PC relationship that it supports, of course. But I do like that they seem to have committed to making better new content, anyway, even if they don't show any evidence of ever planning to fix the old stuff.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
10.04.2013 , 10:28 AM | #2060
Wait, Quething? Am I insane, or do I know you?

Also, it sounds very possible that that, while nice, might have been slipped in beneath the noses of upper management, so I'm not sure if it's a sign of hope. Even so, it's nice to know that some people in Austin are okay.