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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.06.2013 , 07:28 AM | #1501
Quote: Originally Posted by Bytemite View Post
> Especially when their stated stance is that they won't add story content to the cartel market.

Wow, they probably shouldn't have made that promise. Subscribers are going going to flip tables if Bioware introduces SGR options for companions and/or new cartel companions and calls it a player customization instead of story content. There's already precedence here for cartel companions with HK.

Statements like that tend to fall through as soon as a business realizes people will pay for something.

It's like if a company puts out a well received graphics capability demo and people start asking when they can buy the game and reps say they have no plans for a game based on the demo. If they're not deaf, blind, or incompetent, you can start your watches and give it about two years.
And this example is even more true. How often do we see people say (on the forums) "I will pay for this if you make it possible"

It's one of the problems with Cash Shops being introduced, stuff you used to get as part of the sub, gets moved to "pay for it" status as people keep saying "If you add it, I will pay"
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Kaenna's Avatar


Kaenna
06.06.2013 , 07:15 PM | #1502
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
And this example is even more true. How often do we see people say (on the forums) "I will pay for this if you make it possible"

It's one of the problems with Cash Shops being introduced, stuff you used to get as part of the sub, gets moved to "pay for it" status as people keep saying "If you add it, I will pay"
This is exactly the trend I HATE! Before when an update came out for a game subscribers would usually get a little something extra. Sadly that something extra keeps getting to be less and less...

Now, with the Cash Shops added I can understand wanting more in them for us to purchase. But, some things, like um SGR content maybe, just doesn't feel right to put into them. Cosmetic stuff, okay yea and I can go along with that. But, story content as others have pointed out isn't one of them. Making SGR content a Cartel Item is something I am FIRMLY AGAINST!!!

Put it in an expansion where it belongs and I can agree paying for it. Not offered as a Cartel Item.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.06.2013 , 10:43 PM | #1503
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaenna View Post
This is exactly the trend I HATE! Before when an update came out for a game subscribers would usually get a little something extra. Sadly that something extra keeps getting to be less and less...

Now, with the Cash Shops added I can understand wanting more in them for us to purchase. But, some things, like um SGR content maybe, just doesn't feel right to put into them. Cosmetic stuff, okay yea and I can go along with that. But, story content as others have pointed out isn't one of them. Making SGR content a Cartel Item is something I am FIRMLY AGAINST!!!

Put it in an expansion where it belongs and I can agree paying for it. Not offered as a Cartel Item.
As a sub, I only care for the idea of some of the cosmetic items being put into the shop, while some can either be in game for subs or for subs and f2pers.

Problem I see with SGR content, as I can easily see it labeled as cosmetic content, as you get 5 companions already who cover all the bases when it comes to Melee DPS, Melee Tank, Range DPS, Range Tank, and Healer companion.

So, a new SGR companion would be cosmetic content, while SGR content with an already in game companion would be updating (so free) content.

And I don't see why any updates to companions should be expansion based content and not just "oh in patch 2.5 we've added SGR to the classes companions" it's what subs pay for.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

theStirge's Avatar


theStirge
06.07.2013 , 01:19 AM | #1504
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Problem I see with SGR content, as I can easily see it labeled as cosmetic content, as you get 5 companions already who cover all the bases when it comes to Melee DPS, Melee Tank, Range DPS, Range Tank, and Healer companion.
"Content" is probably a bad word choice for describing the cosmetic options in the Cartel Market. If they were to suddenly decide that F2P had been the wrong way to go and that all the stuff in the Market was evil and excised it from the game and forced everyone to go back to the subscription model, nothing in the game would change except there would be fewer options for the appearances of certain things. All the missions would still be there, all the flashpoints and operations, all the battlegrounds, all the classes, all the companions(even HK), everything. Even Makeb and levels 50-55. Given all that, new companions would be extremely unlikely to be in the Cartel Market as anything other than unlocks for non-subscribers. Now, if you've been arguing all along that they'll be unlocks for non-subs and that that is your objection, well, then, I have completely misread a lot of your posts.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
So, a new SGR companion would be cosmetic content, while SGR content with an already in game companion would be updating (so free) content.
Yes, just like HK-51 was cosmetic content and subscribers had to pay extra to get him. Oh, wait.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
And I don't see why any updates to companions should be expansion based content and not just "oh in patch 2.5 we've added SGR to the classes companions" it's what subs pay for.
The point that I was making when I brought up World of Warcraft and its expansions is that Patch 2.5 is expansion content, and could very well have SGR companions in it. (I mean, it won't, but it could.) Patch 2.everything is RotHC expansion content, and when any of it isn't cosmetic stuff that was always destined for the Market, subscribers will get it for no additional charge, as long as they bought the expansion.

Also, as much as I loved City of Heroes and will forever mourn its passing, it honestly had a lot less content than this game does. It just had a lot more ways to mix and match what content it did have, and everything was polished to within an inch of its life. Combat was a lot more fun(although my Combat sentinel evokes memories of playing my scrappers), and it had the best character creator ever, both of which helped to hide the fact that there was nothing to do but run the same 4 or 5 kinds of missions on a very limited selection of maps over and over and over. Creating and publishing its content was so easy that they added the tools to do it to the game itself and let players do it. (Which was totally awesome, not saying it wasn't.) So, yeah, subs getting the larger content patches for free in that game totally understandable. Very different scenario here.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.07.2013 , 02:12 AM | #1505
Quote: Originally Posted by theStirge View Post
Yes, just like HK-51 was cosmetic content and subscribers had to pay extra to get him. Oh, wait.
Fail. HK-51 was released before F2P. And what they deem worthy for the cartel market can change as well.

Quote:
The point that I was making when I brought up World of Warcraft and its expansions is that Patch 2.5 is expansion content, and could very well have SGR companions in it. (I mean, it won't, but it could.) Patch 2.everything is RotHC expansion content, and when any of it isn't cosmetic stuff that was always destined for the Market, subscribers will get it for no additional charge, as long as they bought the expansion.

Also, as much as I loved City of Heroes and will forever mourn its passing, it honestly had a lot less content than this game does. It just had a lot more ways to mix and match what content it did have, and everything was polished to within an inch of its life. Combat was a lot more fun(although my Combat sentinel evokes memories of playing my scrappers), and it had the best character creator ever, both of which helped to hide the fact that there was nothing to do but run the same 4 or 5 kinds of missions on a very limited selection of maps over and over and over. Creating and publishing its content was so easy that they added the tools to do it to the game itself and let players do it. (Which was totally awesome, not saying it wasn't.) So, yeah, subs getting the larger content patches for free in that game totally understandable. Very different scenario here.
Don't know if I agree that the missions where all that different in CoH and TOR. But really, I've felt that mission types where the same in all MMOs. Kill these enemies in this mission. Kill this many enemies. Talk to this person. Click this object

Now, TOR does do a bit more by adding in the cut scenes, if that's what you're talking about.

But then, I felt CoH had way more options in how one got from level 1-50. Do I skip Kings Row? Do I just rdo serwer runs? Mix them up? Do I do the starting missions in AP? GC (before it was destroyed)? Do I just grind my way to 50 with ITFs?

Where as in TOR, I go planet to planet in the same order, hitting up the exact same missions, with the only difference being the class storyline missions.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
06.08.2013 , 01:08 AM | #1506
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Fail. HK-51 was released before F2P. And what they deem worthy for the cartel market can change as well.



Don't know if I agree that the missions where all that different in CoH and TOR. But really, I've felt that mission types where the same in all MMOs. Kill these enemies in this mission. Kill this many enemies. Talk to this person. Click this object

Now, TOR does do a bit more by adding in the cut scenes, if that's what you're talking about.

But then, I felt CoH had way more options in how one got from level 1-50. Do I skip Kings Row? Do I just rdo serwer runs? Mix them up? Do I do the starting missions in AP? GC (before it was destroyed)? Do I just grind my way to 50 with ITFs?

Where as in TOR, I go planet to planet in the same order, hitting up the exact same missions, with the only difference being the class storyline missions.
No you fail, HK-51 was not released before F2P as I remember people Purchasing access to Section X and then asking for refunds because they didn't know they got it free as a subscriber. If everyone was a subscriber the day HK-51 came out, I wouldn't have been having to say "IF you are a free or preferred player, yes you must buy Section X, if you are not you don't" and that was on the day I got HK, which was the very first day he was available

Check the patch notes, F2P and HK-51 were released simultaneously. Which, was a big part of the problem people had... we had no idea what was and wasn't included in our subscription when there was all this new stuff.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.08.2013 , 07:00 AM | #1507
Quote: Originally Posted by AbsolutGrndZero View Post
No you fail, HK-51 was not released before F2P as I remember people Purchasing access to Section X and then asking for refunds because they didn't know they got it free as a subscriber. If everyone was a subscriber the day HK-51 came out, I wouldn't have been having to say "IF you are a free or preferred player, yes you must buy Section X, if you are not you don't" and that was on the day I got HK, which was the very first day he was available

Check the patch notes, F2P and HK-51 were released simultaneously. Which, was a big part of the problem people had... we had no idea what was and wasn't included in our subscription when there was all this new stuff.
Hmmm...I was subbed then too. Still goes back to the "plans can change" and they can make the next companion Cartel Market.

The "This is this way, so it will stay this way" argument is still fail. They could easily decide that if people want a companion that is in no way needed, it is nothing more the window dressing to be purchased in the cartel market.

Before F2P, one had to go out and level up to get their look they want. Before F2P, one had to level a Chiss to 50 before they could make a Chiss Force User, before that, it wasn't even an option.

Plans change, and after the dye pack, I have little faith they won't charge for new content. And putting a SGR companion in any new paid for "expansion" is still paying2gay, the only way it's not, is if they just give it to subs (or subs and f2p...giving it free to subs is not p2g) who haven't bought Makeb.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

theStirge's Avatar


theStirge
06.08.2013 , 01:00 PM | #1508
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Before F2P, one had to go out and level up to get their look they want. Before F2P, one had to level a Chiss to 50 before they could make a Chiss Force User, before that, it wasn't even an option.
It was an option, actually. You just had to get your Legacy to a certain level and shell out a heap of credits. You can still do that, in fact, for every race but Cathar. And yes, it was an option from the day they added Legacies to the game.

The only things in the Cartel Market that aren't available to subscribers through normal gameplay are purely cosmetic. Well, okay, and extra character slots. And you keep bringing up dye packs as if that's somehow an utter betrayal of their stated intentions and practically proof that they're going to turn around and start charging for all the things they said they wouldn't, when dye packs are in fact the most cosmetic thing in the store. Like, almost literally the definition of cosmetic.

There is no way Bioware can rescue the SGR situation, we agree on that. They have already screwed that pooch. What we disagree on is how much worse they're going to make it, with you firmly at the bottom of the pessimism pit and digging deeper every post, and me up here at the edge of the optimism camp.

Gwena's Avatar


Gwena
06.08.2013 , 02:02 PM | #1509
Interesting discussion about the possibilities of a SGR Companion. It is hard to say if I would rather they add one to the CM, or not add one at all. I lean towards the former though. But if they did introduce a SGR Companion, they could always make some money by adding a bunch of customization kits to the CM as a compromise. At least, assuming they added ones that a lot of people actually liked (some Companions just don't seem to have nice enough looking customizations, I almost always see them as default!).

But knowing my luck, they next Companion will probably be an Ewok or an Ortolan or something. Non-human type Companions like HK seem to be easier to "fit" to all classes, and you only need one (while there would have to be two SGR Companions, unless they only added it for one gender ) so I am inclined to think Bioware would choose that easier route.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
06.08.2013 , 04:29 PM | #1510
Quote: Originally Posted by theStirge View Post
There is no way Bioware can rescue the SGR situation, we agree on that. They have already screwed that pooch. What we disagree on is how much worse they're going to make it, with you firmly at the bottom of the pessimism pit and digging deeper every post, and me up here at the edge of the optimism camp.
I'm at least optimistic that they will add it

And dye pack is just the easy example. I could just as easy point to Thana Vesh's outfit, a highly requested outfit, that they put in the RNG Packs And I have no problem with the RNG Packs (except for them making RARE Jawagrams, that is a problem).

That's an outfit they could've put in the CM as a whole outfit to purchase, and sadly they went the route of Packs with it :/
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry