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Keybind or Clicky Clicky?


CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
01.27.2013 , 10:53 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by mcslack View Post
So Im in the process of learning 2 bind. This to me is a very difficult changeout. It'd be much easier to stay with my toolset of mouse and shift than 2 learn all over again. Ive read alot about how some say it's critical for endgame and some say no big deal if u dont. Ultimately I would say that if ur good at either thats all that matters, right?
Right now im holding my own in tier 1 hard's( not great but keep peeps alive as a sage). I need 2 learn far more about mechanic's than how 2 deploy abilities. So how do all u skilled endgamers run ur mission's? Specifically are there any clicker's out there that run ops with little or no binding? Im rather new to this so if my noob colors r shining bright please use the rose colored glasses.
THX all/ any and all comments appreciated


Im updating OP due 2 a stupid reply and an equally nonconstructive response by me 2 said reply. I like those for and against so thx and keep it up. The post's hav been removed(as they should) and lets continue. Sorry to open a can of worms.
Yes, keybinds are kind of mandatory at endgame because they save you time you can otherwise spend on more important things. The time between moving your mouse over an ability and pressing a button can often mean the difference between life and death as a healer. Besides you want your mouse over the ops frames all the time as a healer since tabbing between allies is impossible. Clicking on a frame, then clicking on an ability, then clicking on another frame and clicking on another ability doesn't just make healing slow and cumbersome but it will also make your mouse hand hurt in a long operation or flashpoint.

FYI most keybinds are very simple. Buttons from 1-6 (depending on the length of your fingers), then the same numbers with CTRL, SHIFT and ALT. Group abilities by type on one bar (e.g. I have a damage bar, a healing bar, a utlity bar, a legacy bar, a miscellaneous bar and a party bar) for consistency. Bind interrupts and cooldowns to your mouse if you can. Your mouse needs to have at least 4-5 buttons but even the cheapest ones nowadays have that many. Having a Razer with 10+ buttons is a nice status symbol but it's overkill imho. I have 7 buttons on my mouse and never really felt the need for more.

So yeah start with simple keybinds 1-6 numbers and same with CTRL, ALT and SHIFT. When you get comfortable with those, you can start binding letters on the left side.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

mcslack's Avatar


mcslack
01.27.2013 , 11:12 AM | #42
As im new Im not really a proper one 2 judge, but, It kinda looks to me like your 3rd video is a pvp clicky ownage. Im also pretty sure that ill never rise to that level of skilled play but who knows.
Thank you and well done.

mcslack's Avatar


mcslack
01.27.2013 , 11:24 AM | #43
"It is also extremely depressing seeing that we have to start explaining such basic facts here. SWTOR sure lags behind the times, I believe these "clicker vs. keybind" threads in WoW were popular about five years ago."

I agree however myself and many others hav never played an MMO. Which is why im here asking many questions. There dosnt seem to b a point in the game where a mission pops up and says "now is when u learn to bind".
Again thx 2 all

moonshoter's Avatar


moonshoter
01.28.2013 , 09:11 PM | #44
Both ..

TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
01.29.2013 , 01:12 AM | #45
It's apples or oranges. Just because you have hot keys doesn't mean you don't have to move your hand to click the key, unless you do everything from the mouse, and I hate trying to click the side of the mouse.

I click and do fine in both PvE and PvP. in fact with my click setup I never have to look at the keyboard at all, so I never miss what is going on in front of me.

Now if you had a foot clicker...

CJAShadow's Avatar


CJAShadow
01.29.2013 , 02:37 AM | #46
Without south korean clicking ability (150-300 clicks per minute), I have no idea who clickers can keep up with much of the content there is and play their class to their full potential.

In this game their are moves that are off the GCD (tank skills, taunts, threat drops, INTERRUPTS) which to get the most out of your character, you must be able to cast 2 skills at once.

I have no idea just on Nightmare Pilgrim how someone can hit their 7th skill on their hotkey bar AND get back to their interrupt in time to stop a 1 second with lag Gore.

I myself am a little bit strange as I actually moved my movement keys from wasd to esdf since I can hit A with my pinky while strafing and casting other stuff.

This is also very dependent on the class. I could see classes with lots of cast bars not needing keybinds as much while those that dont only ever using keybinds.

Play however you want to and will make you happy in the game, but in my opinion, if you have to use your mouse twice to heal someone in an ops frame, twice to switch targets as a dps or tank, twice to attack or taunt, that is 1 time too many while your other hand can be doing it.

Of course, I came from a game with no GCD, just animation delay (if you were good enough, you could skip the delay), and starcraft. I play every game like an FPS, imagine doing that with clickies lol.
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anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
01.29.2013 , 05:44 AM | #47
I was a clicker for the first 4 years of my MMO life, through LOTRO and WAR. I did well, I raided at the highest levels, I pvped and did fine. In short, I was a clicker and I could do everything.

When I came to SW:TOR, I made a conscious effort to keybind. I'd never done it before so didn't know what to expect. I got a cheapish gaming mouse which only has 2 thumb buttons. I have bound those two buttons to "shift" and "alt". As a result, I now keybind 36 abilities using 12 keys near to WASD and the mouse thumb buttons.

In terms of skill level / improvement, its been massive! The difference in PvE isn't hugely noticable because as a DPS, hitting 1 skill every 1.5seconds is pretty easy with clicking, and moving using WASD + QE for strafing means you can avoid stuff / circle stuff whilst clicking. However, its the extra stuff that clicking can't do. So, interupts for example. Keybinding is virtually instantaneous whereas clicking takes long. On my guardian, having "riposte" keybound means I can use it off the GCD instantly instead of taking time to move my mouse.

The biggest difference is definitely in PvP. In LOTRO I basically used to circle-strafe around an opponant using Q+A (strafe + turn) or D+E. This was effective against other clickers and newbies but as soon as I found someone good who used keybinds, they'd out-manuver me every time so they'd double my damage simply by denying me the ability to use a skill! The same is true in TOR. Now that I keybind, I spot the keyboard turners in PvP. I can literally stand behind them the entire time whilst they try to turn / run etc but they fail.



The hardest part with keybind is finding the right setup. Clicking is easy: move ur mouse and click. Keybind is hard, you'll be using finders and thumbs that you normally wouldn't use, you'll be hitting keys you normally wouldn't so it takes longer to learn. But, if you are serious about endgame content then it is worth it. Clicking works well enough, but keybinding IS better IF you have the patience to stick with it.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.29.2013 , 05:45 AM | #48
Most layers are usualy using an hybrid system. How to attck AND interrupt ? Put your interrupt on your mouse ? Hpw to cast 2 spells at the same time ? Put on "easy to reach" with your left hand and press the button, while your mouse if clicking on the second one ? How to switch targets ? Press tab.

On my DPS Commando, I'm using :
1 Hammer shot
2 Grav Round
3 Full Auto
4 Demolition Round
5 High impact bolt

And 5 spels are enough for my left hand, who is spamming the keys. For the rest, I can easily reach them with my mouse without And yes, I need to watch my UI, I need to check my procs. Same goes for my Sentinel (even if I need a few more spells, I just keep the low CD one on 1-5).

Edit : PVE wise, we downed everything except Kephess in Denova NiM, just because we tried Denova NiM only 4 times, and always starting from the beggining.

Sydexlic's Avatar


Sydexlic
01.29.2013 , 08:13 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
This makes me laugh,Just because you or others are unable to be effective with clicking, doesn't mean it's inferior in pve.
In pvp yes, that argument is valid.
The same criteria that make key binding superior in PvP apply equally as much in PvE. Just as in PvP, your efficacy is a function of your reaction times, your situational awareness and your mobility. All of which are improved, unquestionably, by key binding.

I have seen very skilled clickers, even doing end-game content such as EC Nightmare Kephess. To that OP DPS i saw that video of, kudos to you for making clicking work to that extent. However, it's undeniable fact that key binding is more efficient in those 3 key performance metrics, situational awareness, reaction times and mobility.

I'm not talking out my arse either. I'm a Warstalker title holder, part of the 2nd group in the world to obtain it. I also killed EC NiM Kephess 2nd in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RliGwB5lwg : This is me in action. You'll see I'm able to freely use the mouse to constantly monitor my surrounds, my ability usage is instant when I want to activate them and I can do so while having complete control over my movement, directionally and whilst strafing. All things that are impossible or made much more difficult by being tied to clicking.

Learn to keybind, you'll be a better player in the long run.

Stacksamus's Avatar


Stacksamus
01.29.2013 , 09:03 AM | #50
I like to use a Razor Naga Epic along with a Logitech G13. I then alter my UI in game so I have the first four bars as 3 columns by 4 rows, which then matches the exact layout of the 12 buttons on the side of my mouse. I setup the G13 with all the buttons I need, but as my fingers sit, it is 'Shift key' under my pinky finger and 'Ctrl key' under that 'Shift Key' and 'Alt Key' under my thumb. This means without really moving my hand, I have instant access to 48 abilities. As I setup 2nd bar as Shift Modifier, 3rd bar as Alt modifier and 4th bar as Ctrl modifier. It took a while to get used to and learn things, but once you learn where all the bits are, it is game on.

On my Sniper for example, I can hold shift and slide my thumb across the bottom row of keys on the mouse (0, -, = amd 9), which deploys all my defensive abilities instantly.
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