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The Tank Shadow Hybrid spec.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Tank Shadow Hybrid spec.

Cowflab's Avatar


Cowflab
01.28.2013 , 08:04 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by JP_Legatus View Post
Make sure when you're writing your ticket to bioware about sins being unbalanced that you put it under smash, jugg tanks, bubble stun, operative heals, ptechs, and snipers. All classes which are taken over sins for anything warzone besides node guarding. Make sure you mention that AFTER you nerf those classes, then you nerf assassins.

Oh wait, that's 6 out of the remaining 6 classes who aren't mercenary.
**** is wrong with you people.
/thread
This^

+1

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
01.28.2013 , 09:07 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Does assassin in tank stance does more damage then jugg in tank stance? yes
does assassin in tank stance has more armor and def cool downs then most jugg hybrids? no.
more damage, less armor reduction. seems fine.
plus, can tankasin swap to crazy derp smash in matter of 10 seconds? nope.
jugg hybrid in dps gear is more tanky in pvp then half tank gear assasin in tank stance.
I have both, if I'm to tank for my team in pvp, I preffer jugg. beter carrier, easy to swap from tanking hybrid to full out dps, better last man standing to interrupt caps.
If you complain for tankasin to be op if he killed your jugg hybrid, then it's l2p issue.
Guardian tanks are completely reliant on their def CDs to survive any type of FF. Too bad the two good ones are on a 3m cd. Outside of warding call and saber ward, guardian tanks are easier to kill than sin tanks.

People want guardians a MT mostly because of g leap and their spammable free aoe slow that keeps the whole enemy team slowed at all times. If the guardian lost those, sins would probably be better MTs in pvp.

And the 0/27/14 spec does plenty good dps, and will nearly hold it's own against focus guardians on most maps, but with the extra utility of double stealth and fastest node reinforcement. Plus focus spec is inevitably going to get nerfed somehow.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
01.28.2013 , 10:21 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Guardian tanks are completely reliant on their def CDs to survive any type of FF. Too bad the two good ones are on a 3m cd. Outside of warding call and saber ward, guardian tanks are easier to kill than sin tanks.

People want guardians a MT mostly because of g leap and their spammable free aoe slow that keeps the whole enemy team slowed at all times. If the guardian lost those, sins would probably be better MTs in pvp.

And the 0/27/14 spec does plenty good dps, and will nearly hold it's own against focus guardians on most maps, but with the extra utility of double stealth and fastest node reinforcement. Plus focus spec is inevitably going to get nerfed somehow.
It just seems to me (do not have my jug to 50 yet) that jugs are just way better at tanking than sins. Yes sins have stealth and do better damage (at least single target) than jugs when both are wearing dps gear but the better teams for ranked usually want a good tank jug. Not full tank but a hybrid, at least up to unstoppable in vigilance.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
01.29.2013 , 02:14 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
It just seems to me (do not have my jug to 50 yet) that jugs are just way better at tanking than sins. Yes sins have stealth and do better damage (at least single target) than jugs when both are wearing dps gear but the better teams for ranked usually want a good tank jug. Not full tank but a hybrid, at least up to unstoppable in vigilance.
I explained why rwzs use guardians as MTs. It's because of friendly leap and free spammable aoe slow. These two things make them a better tank then the other two. It doesn't really have anything to do with their def cds because a sin that is darkness/deception hybrid will have 24s of 25% dam reduction through blackout along with shroud and deflection. That's pretty equal to guardian cds, esp since blackout has a 1 min cd.

volander's Avatar


volander
01.29.2013 , 03:31 AM | #145
Five things make tank shadow/sin so OP

- all build key benefits place at low tier
- retardedly easy rotation (it's even not a rotation, it's look like strafe and spam spam spam...)
- tone of damage in tank stance and free resource management
- 3nd CC breaker on short CD and overall best escape mechanics
- and last, plenty of control abilities (2 stun, mezz, slow, force pull/wave/lift 0_o)

overal best soloing and party class
best in 1v1 counter
best in 1v2 counter
maybe 1v3...

it is clear that that jugg/PT is 1/2 of what have sin
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Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
01.29.2013 , 04:09 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by volander View Post
Five things make tank shadow/sin so OP

- all build key benefits place at low tier
- retardedly easy rotation (it's even not a rotation, it's look like strafe and spam spam spam...)
- tone of damage in tank stance and free resource management
- 3nd CC breaker on short CD and overall best escape mechanics
- and last, plenty of control abilities (2 stun, mezz, slow, force pull/wave/lift 0_o)

overal best soloing and party class
best in 1v1 counter
best in 1v2 counter
maybe 1v3...

it is clear that that jugg/PT is 1/2 of what have sin
Key skills, maybe, are they so good, or are 7 tier skill so crap so ppl have to do hybrids to make AC a killer?
Not many full tank 31/x/x builds for juggs there. PT maybe.
rotation, yes, it is simple. not much synergy, most instant, but far not simplest out there.
tone of damage in 0/27/14 yes, but that's not a tank spec. total damage for 31/x/x or 23/x/x may be high, but there is no burts, they won't kill a rabbit with that.
3 cc breakers? force shroud (1 min) is dots remover, force speed is slow/root remover (20 sec), and a proper cc breaker (2min)
yes, utility is nice, out of combat spike (deception tree has it's own short stun on short cd), usual 4 sec stun, pull (needs target not to white bar), slow (only good if specced tho), push, and 1 out of combat mez + incombat mez on 2 sec (instanc if specced) cast.

1vs2/3 - you must thing of anni marauders. and no, killing 2 muppets doesnt count. bad players who panic and get easly killed doesnt make class op.

edit: to be fair, only reason why I'm defending tank tree and utility (aka tank) hybrid build, is becose if they nerf it, more ppl wil go deception and madness hybrids, and world will burn. (it's like with Maras and Juggs, buffed rage, slight nerf to other trees, and we have derp smash massacre)
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

captindoom's Avatar


captindoom
01.29.2013 , 04:25 AM | #147
L2P, shadow kinetic has already been nerrfed to kingdom come. Its bad players which is the biggest issue. The only thing that currently needs nerfing is the focus tree and bubble stun.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
01.29.2013 , 04:30 AM | #148
dweezil, i expected better from you
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
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volander's Avatar


volander
01.29.2013 , 04:36 AM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
1vs2/3 - you must thing of anni marauders. and no, killing 2 muppets doesnt count. bad players who panic and get easly killed doesnt make class op.
It's all relative. And no need skill to kill two punic muppets playing left heel by any class.
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
01.29.2013 , 07:05 AM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by volander View Post
Five things make tank shadow/sin so OP

- all build key benefits place at low tiercannot argue with this one. But a lot of the cool things are charge specific which was a nerf a while ago.
- retardedly easy rotation (it's even not a rotation, it's look like strafe and spam spam spam...)I have yet to play any class that is "hard" to play.
- tone of damage in tank stance and free resource management
- 3nd CC breaker on short CD and overall best escape mechanicsEvery class has a CC breaker and we have force speed which is critical to staying in range of guarded targets which can be countered with another form of CC since well it only breaks.
- and last, plenty of control abilities (2 stun, mezz, slow, force pull/wave/lift 0_o)
Yeah we do have the best cc in the game. But please people need to stop saying two stuns, we have a hard stun like everyone and a lil 2 sec kd.
overal best soloing and party class
best in 1v1 counter
best in 1v2 counter
maybe 1v3...
a good 1v1 class, 1v2 is possible depending on who its up against and I could 1v3 if I were facing 3 bads.
it is clear that that jugg/PT is 1/2 of what have sin

I am taking a wild guess that you are a jug. Jug tanks are pretty amazing I am working on one now. They have and do things better than assassins and the damage when played right can be almost on par.