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Gunnery / Assault Hybrid (PVE)


ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.24.2013 , 10:50 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post

that's what i mean about what you've missed from my post.

i'm not claiming anything. at all. i haven't even had a chance to login yet to test it out.
you're only wrong in the sense that you're saying i'm wrong... when i'm just opening a discussion.
Your original post in a nutshell: "Here's a spec I heard about. Here's what you gain, here's what you give up, I think extra hard hits for HiB and ammo refund from High Friction Bolts is enough, combined with incendiary round, to make up for the things you lose."

My response in a nutshell: "Demo Round will give better damage than IR + Buffed HiB in my opinion, and ammo management doesn't honestly seem any better since you have to use IR for High Friction Bolts and that negates the ammo saved"

You're wrong for not continuing the discussion. 3 ammo spent on IR to gain 1 ammo back when you use HiB is, as far as I can tell, mostly a zero sum game compared to using Demo Round on cooldown.

Quote: Originally Posted by CJNJ View Post
Seeing as this is on the topic of meh hybrids. How does the damage/ammo difference look between Curtain of fire and Demo round vs ionic Accelerator, slight HiB buff, and IR and plasma cell? I know the hybrids are generally bad but how much do you get hurt in a hybrid like this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#80...RrzozZfGMbzu.2
Sup CJuice?

Honestly I think the biggest problem with that spec is ammo management. If you use IR at all you're basically a gunnery commando without cell charger (see my argument above), so you're going to start running into ammo issues pretty quickly. Your points in Sweltering heat and soldier's endurance are also pretty wasted in a PVE setting.

If we're talking PVP, then sure why the hell not? Your spec has Full Auto hitting like a truck (I always loathe assault spec Full Autos compared to gunnery), and if you can actually get off 3 Charged Bolts without being shut down then your high impact bolts are going to hit like a freaking truck, and you'll be able to reset them, though you'd have to get off three CBs inbetween if you want that 30% damage boost again. Still more burst is more burst. If you stay alive for any length of time though ammo is seriously gonna be hurting you I think.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.24.2013 , 11:29 AM | #12
No!

You get the bonus to HiB from firing Grav which builds stacks of Charged Barrel.

You proc HiB by firing Charged Bolts.

Like I said, totally insane.
Notwired @ Not Good Enough @ TRE

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
01.24.2013 , 04:29 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Your original post in a nutshell: "Here's a spec I heard about. Here's what you gain, here's what you give up, I think extra hard hits for HiB and ammo refund from High Friction Bolts is enough, combined with incendiary round, to make up for the things you lose."
only with regards to ammo

Quote:
My response in a nutshell: "Demo Round will give better damage than IR + Buffed HiB in my opinion, and ammo management doesn't honestly seem any better since you have to use IR for High Friction Bolts and that negates the ammo saved"

You're wrong for not continuing the discussion. 3 ammo spent on IR to gain 1 ammo back when you use HiB is, as far as I can tell, mostly a zero sum game compared to using Demo Round on cooldown.
IR is 18s and HIB/DR are 15

unless you're really bad at clipping dots, you're getting more ammo (albeit i probably should have mentioned in the OP that it's not that much. really that statement was just there to play devil's advocate with my initial impression that the hybrid cost more ammo than full gunnery)

also, i never said the damage was more. i said this:
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
  • incendiary round and over 100% armor penetration with high impact bolt. i reckon that together, these two must account for the ~12-17% lost from demo round and field training for this spec to be worth it

i apologize for not posting any logs. i still haven't had a chance to login yet (hopefully at the weekend)
like i said in a previous post, i think it'll just be something fun to try, but i don't see it being overwhelmingly better than full gunnery if it's even better at all. i'm not trying to sell this spec. i haven't even tried it yet; i was mostly interested to see if others had tried it out already and/or if anyone else was interested in trying it out.

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
01.24.2013 , 04:32 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CJNJ View Post
Seeing as this is on the topic of meh hybrids. How does the damage/ammo difference look between Curtain of fire and Demo round vs ionic Accelerator, slight HiB buff, and IR and plasma cell? I know the hybrids are generally bad but how much do you get hurt in a hybrid like this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#80...RrzozZfGMbzu.2
this is very similar to the build i mentioned in the OP that i thought wasn't that great.

imo curtain of fire is much much better than ionic accelerator and going that far into gunnery just to boost the damage of HIB just isn't worth it IMO regardless of what cell you're in

Skylarc's Avatar


Skylarc
01.24.2013 , 04:52 PM | #15
Things may have changed since KP 16 NM was progression but I produced the most damage through a hybrid in the opposite direction. 0-11-30.

The reason for this was because of a glitch where having grab round allowed you to surpass the max armor pen a boss could have on him. If that is no longer the case it lessens the viability of the spec slightly, but it is still good none-the-less.

Keep up incendiary, grav round to 5 stacks and whenever it is about to fall. HiB and FA on cool down and charged bolts when ammo is high enough.

Much, MUCH more intensive to play than gunnery but if you can keep incend and grav's debuff up it's worth it.

Anyone else played this?
Akil'zon: 55 Combat Medic: <The Elite>
Skylarc: 55 Defense Guardian: <The Elite>
Akil'zen: Marksmanship Sniper: <We got death star>

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.24.2013 , 05:01 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
only with regards to ammo

IR is 18s and HIB/DR are 15

unless you're really bad at clipping dots, you're getting more ammo (albeit i probably should have mentioned in the OP that it's not that much. really that statement was just there to play devil's advocate with my initial impression that the hybrid cost more ammo than full gunnery)

also, i never said the damage was more. i said this:



i apologize for not posting any logs. i still haven't had a chance to login yet (hopefully at the weekend)
like i said in a previous post, i think it'll just be something fun to try, but i don't see it being overwhelmingly better than full gunnery if it's even better at all. i'm not trying to sell this spec. i haven't even tried it yet; i was mostly interested to see if others had tried it out already and/or if anyone else was interested in trying it out.
See? Now we're having a discussion. I agree though I don't see the damage being that much of an advantage. I'm honestly not sold that the damage is even the same. Also I'm not sure that armor pen quite works like that. I always hear the VGs say how their apparent armor pen on HiB isn't as high as it looks.

Also seriously you lose demo round for burst phases which are of particular importance on pretty much all of the boss fights in TFB, as well as NiM Kephess.

Quote: Originally Posted by Skylarc View Post
Things may have changed since KP 16 NM was progression but I produced the most damage through a hybrid in the opposite direction. 0-11-30.

The reason for this was because of a glitch where having grab round allowed you to surpass the max armor pen a boss could have on him. If that is no longer the case it lessens the viability of the spec slightly, but it is still good none-the-less.

Keep up incendiary, grav round to 5 stacks and whenever it is about to fall. HiB and FA on cool down and charged bolts when ammo is high enough.

Much, MUCH more intensive to play than gunnery but if you can keep incend and grav's debuff up it's worth it.

Anyone else played this?
A big thing that has changed is that armor debuffs on the target do not stack, so having a guardian and a gunslinger and a commando just isn't the same as it used to be. You can reduce 20% of their armor. That's it.

Also, now AP and Sticky Grenade are on separate cooldowns which makes AP a lot more attractive imo.

I dunno, I don't run assault in PVE. You'd have to ask Gyro.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Skylarc's Avatar


Skylarc
01.24.2013 , 05:52 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
A big thing that has changed is that armor debuffs on the target do not stack, so having a guardian and a gunslinger and a commando just isn't the same as it used to be. You can reduce 20% of their armor. That's it.

Also, now AP and Sticky Grenade are on separate cooldowns which makes AP a lot more attractive imo.

I dunno, I don't run assault in PVE. You'd have to ask Gyro.
All I needed to know. I will have to check AP's damage on dummy's but that is so much more of a viable spec because of that. Step away from the game for 10 months and your back to level 1.
Akil'zon: 55 Combat Medic: <The Elite>
Skylarc: 55 Defense Guardian: <The Elite>
Akil'zen: Marksmanship Sniper: <We got death star>

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.24.2013 , 11:36 PM | #18
Stacking grav is worthless if you're not in gunnery.

It's worthless because getting stacks of grav is not the point.

The point is the 25% boost on demo round, the 30% boost on HiB, proccing CoF.

A 20% armour debuff is nothing special, you gain about 8% damage on kinetic and energy attacks but you've lost so much more damage by then spending a ton of ammo on incendiary round which ignores armour anyway!
Notwired @ Not Good Enough @ TRE

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.25.2013 , 11:21 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Stacking grav is worthless if you're not in gunnery.

It's worthless because getting stacks of grav is not the point.

The point is the 25% boost on demo round, the 30% boost on HiB, proccing CoF.

A 20% armour debuff is nothing special, you gain about 8% damage on kinetic and energy attacks but you've lost so much more damage by then spending a ton of ammo on incendiary round which ignores armour anyway!
That depends on whether or not your raid has an armor debuff. If you're using 2 sentinels, 1 commando, and 1 sage DPS, with two shadow tanks, then that armor debuff makes all the difference in the world (talking 8 man obviously). You've said yourself Gyro that assault does much better for you when there's someone else there to lower the armor.

Whether or not it's just better to go full gunnery at that point is a different question of course, and obviously I'd prefer to just be full gunnery, but that's me.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
01.25.2013 , 11:43 AM | #20
Yes, all classes without a debuff gain damage when there is one.

But slightly more damage on grav rounds isn't the reason you fire grav rounds yourself, it's the massive buffs to damage it gives to FA, HiB and DR.

So it's a buffing attack.

Incendiary is another buffing attack but only if you go high enough in the Assault tree which that build does not.

So it's taking both buffing attacks but totally missing the point of both and proccing either nothing or wasting talent points.
Notwired @ Not Good Enough @ TRE