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Is Min/maxed WH/EWH enough for TFB HM.


IrishTR's Avatar


IrishTR
01.19.2013 , 09:33 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerilas View Post
Hi all.
I'm a PVP based operative healer and I am the main healer in our RWZ team.
I love the challenge that it poses to keep everybody up and maintain my energy.
Unfortunately, these kinds of matches are rare yet so full of potential to learn to heal under severe stress.

Therefore I've started looking into PvE. In my first day I did LI HM and EV HM.
These were walks in the park and I was severely dissapointed because on my shadow tank some healers seem to struggle with the fight.

The next day I got into a TFB HM. Now I've only ever done everything up until EC HM on my tank. Never anything on my healer, never TFB. I was a pug together with 2 more who joined a gulid run. This was obviously not the best group.
I had read up on the tactics and nothing more.

On the first boss we wiped a few times cuz we messed up the yellow circles combined with the blood pools quite alot. It was cleared after a few times so we moved on to the 2nd boss. The group leader had doubts about my gear since Dread Guard isnt that easy to heal. Yet after a mere 2 tries we cleared it already.

Now my question is. Do you experienced raiders find Min maxed combo of WH and EWH gear to be enough for TFB HM? As a single player or a whole team. I didn't do the other bosses cuz we decided to stop where we were. People had to go.
I treat it the same way the PVP crowd treats PVE gear in PVP... Shuned/Forbidden! Will not take any PVP geared person into any Op, regardless of you can make it through, thats just more weight on the other 7 people because your not tuned properly for the content imo, can it be done sure, but at some expense/strain somewhere to someone else.

fitzmagic's Avatar


fitzmagic
01.19.2013 , 10:17 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post

That said, here's what I got:
Elite War Hero (with PvE stim)
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...1-a8ef99c2790f
1901 cunning
673 bonus healing
35% crit
77% surge
19k hp

Full Campaign (stimmed)
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...9-62a61bf7421b
2308 Cunning
751 Bonus Healing
35% crit
78% surge
20k hp
look how much better the Campaign stuff is. Why not run HM EC and get some PvE gear first?


In my experience you can heal fine TFB HM Or EC HM in itemized pvp gear. Its not a matter of having a "good" healer with you making up for you or others in the group carrying you. Gear wise Itemized pvp is almost identical stat wise as blackhole gear. If I put my PVE gear (Blackhole) stuff the only difference is I get an extra 1000hp and 150 cunning. My stats PVP gear
2016 Cunning
795 Bonus healing
37%crit chance
78.82 Surge
20652 hp

It all comes down to how good you heal. I will take pvp gear that gives my injection base heal of 3680, RN of 4800 over lesser heals from pve gear. I have run with multiple guild runs in my pvp gear and have yet to find a guild say my healing was insufficient or they had to carry me. Its is always the other way around and they complement and say good job.

Ryvirath's Avatar


Ryvirath
01.19.2013 , 11:13 AM | #33
PvPers are wayway more optimized then PvErs in general and the skills you gain from being competitive in ranked pvp far outweigh the armoring gap. I'm the same and I hardly ever run across a pver on the fleet with a higher bonus damage because of awful itemization. I'd say you'll be fine, don't get your hopes up for NM EC though.

Houzukimaru's Avatar


Houzukimaru
01.19.2013 , 11:17 AM | #34
It's possible depending on the party, but not recommended. It takes more time, but I'd rather grind PvE gear from a HM FP or SM Ops, since that's easier to do in WH, before running HM Ops, esp HM TFB.
Captain Mij Galaar
Executive Officer
Alpha Company
203rd Republic Expeditionary Legion

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
01.19.2013 , 11:46 AM | #35
If I ran a ranked WZ in full campaign gear I would get chewed out, and rightly so. It the same for someone running HM ops in PVP gear. These are HM Ops, not SM. They take Everyone on the team pulling their weight. The issue is not CAN it be done, but is it acceptible. In my opinion NO. If you are running PVE in PVP gear you are limiting your potential and therefore the team is having to make up for that. HM FPs.. Thats one thing... Those are easy and its not a big deal for someone to be carried by the team a little. You are trying to take a short cut, instead of doing the gear grind. HM OPS are tough and require each member bringing their best. While you may be a skilled player and you were able to get by... It speaks more of the other healer and those in the raid who made up for your "handicap".
While it worked out this time, don't be surprised or offended if you get the boot or uninvited the next time due to your gear.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
BeÓrs - Scoundrel Healer
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IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
01.19.2013 , 12:29 PM | #36
To be honest, I've done this operation in full unoptimized Rakata (worse than min/maxed EWH/WH). The enrage timers are very lax assuming you're good at your class/role. It's not hard. NIM EC however, you will need to be in full optimized pve gear 61's+ to be able to meet req on every fight.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.19.2013 , 12:33 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by fitzmagic View Post
In my experience you can heal fine TFB HM Or EC HM in itemized pvp gear. Its not a matter of having a "good" healer with you making up for you or others in the group carrying you. Gear wise Itemized pvp is almost identical stat wise as blackhole gear. If I put my PVE gear (Blackhole) stuff the only difference is I get an extra 1000hp and 150 cunning. My stats PVP gear
2016 Cunning
795 Bonus healing
37%crit chance
78.82 Surge
20652 hp

It all comes down to how good you heal. I will take pvp gear that gives my injection base heal of 3680, RN of 4800 over lesser heals from pve gear. I have run with multiple guild runs in my pvp gear and have yet to find a guild say my healing was insufficient or they had to carry me. Its is always the other way around and they complement and say good job.
Could you link an AMR profile to that? I'd like to see the gear makeup.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
01.19.2013 , 12:47 PM | #38
2 things.

The comparison to PvPing in PvE gear and PvEing in PvP gear is a poor one, as for PvE you're only trying to hit a certain level which many people can reach in PvP gear with the appropriate skill. While in PvP you're actively competing against other players, which if they are just as skilled as you, will crush you if they have an edge in gear. Also, having 200 less main stat in PvE is much less of a handicap than having 0 expertise in PvE.

Secondly, if there's one thing I've noticed as someone who does both aspects of the game, its that PvPers that don't regularly PvE can often become great PvEers. They have the requisite skills, and often simply need someone to help them learn the fights. But more often than not, PvEers that don't regularly PvP make poor PvPers, their reaction times are slow, they're used to scripted fights more than anything.

Long story short, yeah min/maxed PVP gear is fine, in some ways it can beat stock Black Hole gear. And don't listen to these stories of people talking about carrying others, you'll know if you're being carried, if you have to hop in a parser (moreso applies to DPS).

I remember a long time ago a friend of mine (Assault Vanguard) who exclusively PvP'd wanted to do a hard mode EV with us. He was in recruit gear, meanwhile 2 of our other DPS included a Rakata geared Sentinel and a Columi geared Sage. We hit enrage on Annhilator Droid, and they were ready to kick my recruit geared friend, even disparaging him in Officer chat for being a PvPer... I asked all the DPS to upload their parses for the fight. My friend was at 1100 DPS, the Sentinel at 800, and the Sage at 600. Granted those other 2 DPS were TERRIBLE, but they thought they'd automatically be better because they PvE'd only and had PvE gear. Skill > gear.

Doubledeath's Avatar


Doubledeath
01.19.2013 , 03:51 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
Skill > gear.
Ty let me break down the requirements heal wise for NiM kephess on avg 1700 Effective HPS assuming you are 80-90% effective (a good healer) this is easily achievable in Rakata or itemized WH/EWH

Next best thing to asking people on a forum full of people who don't play this game is use torparse.com have you and the other healer upload logs. You can see you effective HPS on all the fights and give you some insight on where you overhealing is coming from.

People struggle with the contet regardless of gear because of their personal skill so do not let anyone tell you what can and cannot be done.

Lastly kephess in tfb is far easier to heal than dread guards it's only a problem of movement. Seeing as you come from pvp I don't think you should have any problems. Effective HPS is between 1200-1500 depending on how bad your group is. And even less for tfb assuming the same situations. In fact the heal check on 16man NiM Jargon and Sorno is actually the highest heal requirement in the game and was doable in Rakata. Enough said Ty for your time. Enjoy pve it's a nice break from the smash's.

LastWizard's Avatar


LastWizard
01.19.2013 , 05:20 PM | #40
Well my PvP gear is min/maxed but my primary damage and bonus damage are higher than some people who PvE, I have raided in PvP gear before, I have 1835 willpower in PvP gear, and 2105 in PvE gear, it makes a noticeable difference but people still allowed me to raid. I believe you still have to see their dps in action before you ban them from raiding with your group.

However to clarify things, PvP gear is ok for a dps, but for a healer or tank, I don't think it would work.