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Guarding the Healers

Gwence's Avatar

01.17.2013 , 01:47 PM | #31
sorry I must've missed where I typed a tank should open with a taunt

I'm going to analyze my 3 sentence post again and try to find it.... gimme a sec.

demotivator's Avatar

01.17.2013 , 02:02 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by ElQuesoGrande View Post
For the record all of you who claim guard only has damage reduction in PVP.... YOU should read the tooltip. the 50% damage transfer is PVP only, HOWEVER the 5% damage reduction and 25% threat reduction occur in PVE and PVP. The 5% reduction is NOT PvP dependent. That being said... if you guard a healer, you're bad and you should feel bad
The thing is that if I run a fp with random people unless I see that a DPS has clearly better gear than the other one and should deal more damage, I am not going to ask: "ok which of you guys is the better DPS?" I'll just guard the healer and pay attention to the first pulls. If I see that none of them is pulling agro the healer will keep my guard either way I will give it to whichever DPS seems to get too much threat.
Randomizing your forums.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar

01.17.2013 , 04:54 PM | #33
So, there are times when, as a tank, I *do* guard the healer. TfB Second Phase is an obvious example, but even in flashpoints, I'll pop it on the healer during something like Kaon for trash pulls (swapping it back to high-DPS during bosses). Guard *is* a damage reduction in PvE, though only 5%, and the threat reduction makes it easier to hold mobs under a lot of cases. Healers will still pre-pull (particularly commandos), but the guard reduces their AoE threat to the point where it is negligible, so a single hit on everything, or even my own healing agro (as a shadow) can generally keep things rounded up.

Blindly AoE taunting is terrible advice, btw. Because of the way that taunts magnify threat, you want to pop your AoE taunt at a *minimum* after you've hit everything, or ideally only in emergencies. Tanks who lead with a taunt end up losing agro very quickly and getting themselves stuck in a situation where they don't have agro and can't get it back since their taunts are on CD.

In general though, yeah, I share your frustration. Mostly because bad guard strategy is usually a sign of a bad tank who doesn't think things through, and therefore a precursor to a horrible run.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Swaption's Avatar

01.17.2013 , 06:29 PM | #34
You're right that guarding the dps is more optimal in most situations, but when you are faced with potentially lower skilled/geared players guarding the healer is a safer option. In any group finder flashpoint, a mdps doing 1500 dps probably is geared and skilled enough to avoid dying on his own, but you might have a minimally geared healer that may die to adds. If the healer dies, its usually a guaranteed wipe in most situations, but if dps dies, there is still a chance to complete. Basically, when faced with an uncertain pug, some tanks might prefer the safer option where you tone down your dps for a slower but more certain clear.
Kgu - Sniper | Kzg - Mercenary | K-g - Marauder

Qvasar's Avatar

01.17.2013 , 06:48 PM | #35
Everyone seems to be in general agreement here, there are of course specific situations where you should guard the healer.

The point however is:
A tank that joins a flashpoint or operation, without any previous knowledge of the other players' skill, who doesn't even bother inspecting anyone, and just slaps a guard on the first healer he can find is doing a poor job.

First and foremost tanks are "aggro" managers, not punching bags as some believe (eg. the guy who once told me his character is "built for taking damage"). Part of that aggro management begins before the fight starts, by assessing the other players.

For example, when I join any group I check the following on every player:
  • What is their guild?
  • Is their stance correct?
  • Do they have all the class buffs?
  • Do they have a stim on?
  • What is the tier of their gear?
  • Is the gear optimized or just stock?
  • Do they have a set bonus?
  • Are the operation introduction quests completed?
  • Are the vehicle achievement quests completed?

These are some of the indicators a tank should be aware of before deciding who to put their guard on, unfortunatly they are overlooked by the vast majority of PuG tanks.

slafko's Avatar

01.18.2013 , 02:30 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
There are players on The Red Eclipse that haven't heard of your guild?
There are some of us that' don't really care. Besides, people are more likely to remember bad players (hence this thread) than the good ones that do their job.

I wouldn't have even known that I've played with Qvasar before had I not looked at his signature. Kamii rang a bell from a recent PUG KP HM weekly quest run. I remembered the name because he was on my Sorno team and the raid because it was mostly some Russian dudes leeroying around and making the run a bit too chaotic for my personal preference.

Other than that - I remember the bad ones. Players and guilds both. The very worst of the players get a free membership to my ignore list. The bad guilds just make me more alert when I get them in flashpoints.

DrewFromPhilly's Avatar

01.18.2013 , 02:38 AM | #37
Because HM fp are so terribly difficult, and this is such a life or death issue.

slafko's Avatar

01.18.2013 , 03:53 AM | #38
They obviously are for some players.

snowmon's Avatar

01.18.2013 , 04:09 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerilas View Post
From a healer's point of view who is also a tank:

This goes only for random HM FP's. In Ops i assume the tank knows that he's doing and guards the best dps.

So. Personally when I tank I guard the strongest DPS.
When I'm healing, I'd rather have the tanks guard on me. Why? Because 95% of the tanks has no idea how to taunt or keep ALL enemies on him, for the entire fight. I myself know this but most don't.
In 75% of those 95% of the cases the DPS go for the strongest enemy first just like the tank does.
This causes ALL the other adds to fire on me because I'm the only one with aggro on them.

I am so sick and tired of this happening almost every ****in FP.

end /rant
funny thing is guarding you is still not going to change the situation, your still going to heal him, the adds are still going to attack you cause noone else is gaining aggro on them, reducing it by 5% will do not a dam thing lol. So again its pointless to guard you.

if im healing and a tank guards me, i just remove it and tell him who to guard.

if im dpsing and i DONT get guard (im PT dps) i just hold no punches and constantly rip aggro off him till he wakes up and guards me.

if im tanking i will always guard the top dps, not right away cause u can gauge it properly till you see what they can do, as some people in good gear r really just terribad players.
lvl 55 PT DPS, ToFN Server

Never_Hesitate's Avatar

01.18.2013 , 04:21 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by snowmon View Post
they think its also a damage reduction, but us people that can read know this is infact only for pvp and not pve.
There is a dmg reduction in pve as well. It's only 5% and not really worth mentioning.
I agree with the op and I hate heals who ask for guard in PvE.
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