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Guarding the Healers


RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
01.17.2013 , 08:22 AM | #11
There are loads of bad tanks out there that guard the healer, very few of them reads the forum thought, better yell on them ingame instead, I do that.
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Qvasar's Avatar


Qvasar
01.17.2013 , 08:33 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
There are loads of bad tanks out there that guard the healer, very few of them reads the forum thought, better yell on them ingame instead, I do that.
To be honest people resent being told what to do and being called out directly. On most cases the tank in question will just ignore you, kick you off the group, or tell you to learn to play when the one at fault is himself. Very rare are the occasions when someone actually says "thank you for the info, i didn't know that".

Nevarun's Avatar


Nevarun
01.17.2013 , 08:37 AM | #13
Also I do believe the following is true:


Ranged DPS Requires 130% of tank threat to pull agro (Healers are considered ranged)

Melee DPS Requires 110% of tank threat to pull agro

So this means if the tank has 1000 Threat (500dmg), Melee only needs 1100 dmg to pull, Ranged DPS needs 1300 dmg to pull and healers need 2600hp healed to pull agro.

OH AND GUARD HAS NO DAMAGE REDIRECTION IN PVE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ THE TOOLTIP.

LogicalPremise's Avatar


LogicalPremise
01.17.2013 , 08:40 AM | #14
As a healer, the only time I expect to be guarded is when we have consistently garbage DPS who run around aggroing everything and then dying and I get swarmed by trash. The rest of the time, any competent healer has enough (or should have enough) tools to deal with a single trash pack (aggro wipe, bubble, self heal, or just asking for one of the DPS to get the guy off / burn him down) to avoid needing guard.

90% of the time I'm out of guard range anyway, and so it does no good. So why do healers ask for guard?

Because, shock, some healers are bads. They fail to drop HoT's and bubbles at the correct time, fail to pre-hot before big hits, and try to half-*** DPS and end up aggroing trash onto themselves, then scream the tank sucks. Yet people put up with it because of queue times. Ugh.

Tanks should not be guarding healers except in a handful of specific , limited situations.
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Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.17.2013 , 08:41 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Qvasar View Post
To be honest people resent being told what to do and being called out directly. On most cases the tank in question will just ignore you, kick you off the group, or tell you to learn to play when the one at fault is himself. Very rare are the occasions when someone actually says "thank you for the info, i didn't know that".
I'm in ToFN but more or less I know your guild, it's rather surprising to hear people completely flat out deny advice given by the more accomplished players out there. Back in WoW when each server had few of these more hardcore or successful guilds most people would either give team lead to them or ask advice from them. That kind of conscience and logical thinking most of the time doesn't exist in this game.
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Qvasar's Avatar


Qvasar
01.17.2013 , 08:44 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
I'm in ToFN but more or less I know your guild, it's rather surprising to hear people completely flat out deny advice given by the more accomplished players out there.
Because the players who need to be told what to do have no idea of what's going on around them. They don't know who are the most accomplished guilds, players, etc...

TheMarmalade's Avatar


TheMarmalade
01.17.2013 , 08:59 AM | #17
I do not condone guarding the healer but it is obvious why it happens. As a healer I gain aggro on everyone not just who the tank is Tanking therefore if the tank can't hold aggro on the adds they run to me before the dps. This can be fixed if dps follows kill order weak to strong but we all know that rarely happens cause they get gold fever to damn often and try to pull off tanks so they can go "you suck tank I just pulled aggro off you" we all know this happens.

I really think this is just a combination of the tank not fully understanding his guard and dps not knowing there role. The result is bad tanks think they are doing the right thing cause they have been trained by bad dps to be on alert for damage to the healer. Sad thing is as a healer I will pull adds if dps isn't killing them with if without a guard cause I am the only one gaining aggro if no one is attacking them. Which means the guard is completely wasted.

MyDarkSunshine's Avatar


MyDarkSunshine
01.17.2013 , 09:10 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by LogicalPremise View Post
90% of the time I'm out of guard range anyway, and so it does no good. So why do healers ask for guard?
Pretty sure guard's aggro reduction range is 30m and that the more limited range only applies to the PvP benefits. If I'm not mistaken most heals are also limited to 30m, so you are probably within range. The tooltip is somewhat misleading, as is the buff that pops up when you're out of 10m of the tank.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nevarun View Post
OH AND GUARD HAS NO DAMAGE REDIRECTION IN PVE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ THE TOOLTIP.
Think there is still 5% redirection, however that is negligible.

Quote: Originally Posted by Qvasar View Post
Because the players who need to be told what to do have no idea of what's going on around them. They don't know who are the most accomplished guilds, players, etc...
There are players on The Red Eclipse that haven't heard of your guild? You (as a guild) - to your credit - don't exactly run around bragging and shouting about your accomplishments (at least, not that I've seen) but even players from non-"hard core" raiding guilds that do not care about highest/best progression such as myself have heard enough of you to give serious consideration to any advice you offer.

But then, everyone should give at least some consideration to almost any (within reason) advice they are given - dismissing such things out of hand is rarely justified.
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Qvasar's Avatar


Qvasar
01.17.2013 , 09:41 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by TheMarmalade View Post
I really think this is just a combination of the tank not fully understanding his guard and dps not knowing there role. The result is bad tanks think they are doing the right thing cause they have been trained by bad dps to be on alert for damage to the healer.
As likely as this may be you can't try and cover up the mistakes of the DDs by doing one of your own. If people aren't even aware they are doing something wrong they aren't likely to ever change it. I have a commando aswell and often heal flashpoints (queue pops faster). If the tank puts a guard on me I instantly drop it off. If I die because I get swarmed by adds I do blame the DDs for not reacting to the changes in the combat environment and having tunnel vision towards boss. Eventually they will learn, hopefully, someday...

Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
Pretty sure guard's aggro reduction range is 30m and that the more limited range only applies to the PvP benefits. If I'm not mistaken most heals are also limited to 30m, so you are probably within range. The tooltip is somewhat misleading, as is the buff that pops up when you're out of 10m of the tank.
Yes.

Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
Think there is still 5% redirection, however that is negligible.
Damage reduction, not redirection. Which is another reason it should be on a melee character which is more likely to be taking damage.

Quote: Originally Posted by MyDarkSunshine View Post
There are players on The Red Eclipse that haven't heard of your guild? You (as a guild) - to your credit - don't exactly run around bragging and shouting about your accomplishments (at least, not that I've seen) but even players from non-"hard core" raiding guilds that do not care about highest/best progression such as myself have heard enough of you to give serious consideration to any advice you offer.
It is the only explanation I can come up with. When I say they never heard of us I mean actually they never heard of anyone besides themselves and/or don't speak English. I honestly don't know how it is on other servers but I've seen it all on TRE. Hundreds of level 50 players without a guild, without advanced class, without a stance, using the most flabbergasting (I like this word ) abilities, needing on gear that is not for their class... For example, this week I must have told a sentinel over 10x on an LFG story mode operation to stop using transcendence constantly, neither did he reply, nor did he stop doing it. Figure that out...

TheMarmalade's Avatar


TheMarmalade
01.17.2013 , 09:55 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Qvasar View Post
As likely as this may be you can't try and cover up the mistakes of the DDs by doing one of your own. If people aren't even aware they are doing something wrong they aren't likely to ever change it. I have a commando aswell and often heal flashpoints (queue pops faster). If the tank puts a guard on me I instantly drop it off. If I die because I get swarmed by adds I d o blame the DDs for not reacting to the changes in the combat environment and having tunnel vision towards boss. Eventually they will learn, hopefully, someday...
I agree totally. If a tank puts his guard on me I take it off and tell him who to put it on. If the ask why I explain and let him know if I pull aggro its because the dps is not doing there job not him. Atm I am way to geared for most tanks to hold aggro against adds over me if the dps doesn't slice and dice em.