Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Guarding the Healers


Qvasar's Avatar


Qvasar
01.21.2013 , 10:39 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by jedimasterjac View Post
I'm a level 50 tank in full Rakata. I've almost always guarded the healer, and have no issues. I believe the problem is that you're purposefully taking the aggro from the tank. You yourself said you do. I'd suggest you DPS instead of purposefully off-tank.
You do realize I'm taking the aggro because I am DPSing. I don't have any taunts or high-threat abilities. I just DPS and the tank loses aggro 90% of the times. If I am guarded that drops to 50%.

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
01.21.2013 , 10:41 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by uniz View Post
nicely said.

too many dps think pulling agro is a sign of uberness when it only shows ineptness. when you are over geared than your tank such dps need to "scale" their dps to the tanks ability. this would have been learned in other mmos where skill was more involved rather than easy mode game play mechanics. thankfully we also dont have real time dps meters or this problem would be even more prevalent.
1. Aggro in this game is retardedly easy to hold because of taunt mechanics and guard.

2. I would absolutely LOVE for them to enable mods like Recount because of the utility of it. It's a great raiding tool and tells you instantly where you, or other players need to improve.
APOSTATES
Website | Recruitment | About Us
Jokerseven - Shadow | Ce'lia - Sentinel
Sentinel PvE Basics/ Marauder PvE Basics

Qvasar's Avatar


Qvasar
01.21.2013 , 10:42 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by uniz View Post
when you are over geared than your tank such dps need to "scale" their dps to the tanks ability.
Even when the tank refuses to guard you because he thinks he is awesome and noone will steal aggro? I'm sorry but if someone is being stubborn I switch to "no holds barred" barred mode and hold nothing back.

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
01.21.2013 , 11:47 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Qvasar View Post
Please stop this nonsense.

I play a combat sentinel with BiS gear and I end up tanking 9/10 flashpoints and operations I join via group finder because tanks actively refuse to put their guard on me. I have stopped bothering trying to explain on a daily basis why they should do this and just do my best to "keep aggro" so they realize they are making a mistake.

For those who don't know how threat is calculated:
  • An attack has a 1.0x modifier on damage to threat.
  • A heal has a 0.5x modifier on heal to threat.
  • Tanking stance gives a 2.0x modifier on damage to threat.

This means a healer has to do 2x more healing than the damage done by a damage dealer (DD) in order to acctualy "pull aggro". If for example a DD is doing 1500DPS, the healer would have to do 3000HPS...

Also for those advocating the healer must have a guard because any adds will target him/her, guarding doesn't in any way prevent this from happening When adds spawn their "threat table" is empty and as soon as the healer casts a heal on anybody the threat generated from that heal is split amongs all the enemies currently engaged. Unless the adds are taunted or attacked they will go for the healer, regardless of guard.

So, if it makes no sense guarding the healer who is the guard for? Simple, the best damage dealer in the group.

Using my previous example of a DD doing 1500DPS, the tank would have to do more than 750DPS in order to "keep aggro" (disregarding "high threat" abilities and taunts).

Now ask yourselves what makes more sense:
  • A tank doing less than 750DPS - guard the best damage dealer in the group.
  • A healer doing more than 3000HPS - guard the healer.

Amusing fact: I once had a tank tell me to "stop taunting"... on a sentinel...

TL;DR
Learn about how threat is calculated - Tanking: A Primer; stop guarding the healers; guard the best damage dealer in group; AoE taunt adds.
General rule is to Guard DPS when doing boss fights and Guard Healers during multiple trash pulls.... Only exception I can think of to this rule is the 2nd phase on Terror from beyond as healers will get smacked big time if you don't guard them. Not to mention the DPS are on the tentacles anyways so there not pulling aggro from the boss like a healer can.

The only way a DPS is going to get more aggro then the healer during trash pulls is if he's spec for AOE damage, and if your doing a Operation you shouldn't be spec for AOE damage in the first place since this will reduce your single target damage which is more important in a Operation.
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
01.21.2013 , 11:53 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
1. Aggro in this game is retardedly easy to hold because of taunt mechanics and guard.

2. I would absolutely LOVE for them to enable mods like Recount because of the utility of it. It's a great raiding tool and tells you instantly where you, or other players need to improve.
Another issue is how OP Sentinels/Marauders are, their burst damage is huge.... Whenever you see people pulling bosses away from tanks its usually this class... I imagine they'll be toned down a bit in a future patch..
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
01.21.2013 , 02:12 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Another issue is how OP Sentinels/Marauders are, their burst damage is huge.... Whenever you see people pulling bosses away from tanks its usually this class... I imagine they'll be toned down a bit in a future patch..
Doubt it. Snipers can do just as much as mara's, the difference is that there is a much smaller population of snipers and very few of them are actually geared correctly/rotation correctly for their lethality spec. Baddies will be bad i suppose.

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
01.21.2013 , 02:57 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Another issue is how OP Sentinels/Marauders are, their burst damage is huge.... Whenever you see people pulling bosses away from tanks its usually this class... I imagine they'll be toned down a bit in a future patch..
Gunnery / Arsenal Commandos/ Mercs and SS/ MM Slingers/ Snipers can yank aggro at the start of a fight soon as well.

Pro-tip for tanks: Don't use taunt until after you've been through an entire threat rotation. For example, after a Shadow uses a 3 stack TkT with Force Potency and an adrenal (recommended). You'll have aggro for the rest of the fight.
APOSTATES
Website | Recruitment | About Us
Jokerseven - Shadow | Ce'lia - Sentinel
Sentinel PvE Basics/ Marauder PvE Basics

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
01.21.2013 , 03:06 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
Gunnery / Arsenal Commandos/ Mercs and SS/ MM Slingers/ Snipers can yank aggro at the start of a fight soon as well.

.
That's why on all the videos showing people 3-4 manning Operations the DPS is always Sentinels or Marauders

True any class can pull aggro at the beginning of a fight, but Sentinels/Marauders have a tendency to pull it constantly during the entire fight.

But of course people who play sentinels/marauders are going to come in to defend it so they don't get a nerf... Snipers average 1600+ on parsers and marauders average 1700+, ive seen marauders hit as high as 1800+... yeah no discrepancy there, just all snipers are bad players
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
01.21.2013 , 05:03 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
That's why on all the videos showing people 3-4 manning Operations the DPS is always Sentinels or Marauders

True any class can pull aggro at the beginning of a fight, but Sentinels/Marauders have a tendency to pull it constantly during the entire fight.

But of course people who play sentinels/marauders are going to come in to defend it so they don't get a nerf... Snipers average 1600+ on parsers and marauders average 1700+, ive seen marauders hit as high as 1800+... yeah no discrepancy there, just all snipers are bad players
The point I was making is that any class that has a lot of front loaded/ burst damage is able to pull aggro at the start of the fight. Sents and Maras are most known for it because of their popularity.
APOSTATES
Website | Recruitment | About Us
Jokerseven - Shadow | Ce'lia - Sentinel
Sentinel PvE Basics/ Marauder PvE Basics

Ailie's Avatar


Ailie
01.21.2013 , 10:52 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
General rule is to Guard DPS when doing boss fights and Guard Healers during multiple trash pulls....
Really? My god if a tank can't manage more than one mob they must be pretty lame.

Sorry but it's true. Even if you can't CC there is more than enough abilities across all of the classes in this game to ensure the tank can maintain aggro.

Guard on DPS, ALWAYS

As for damage, someone has to take it. If you guard the healer the DPS you just took it off will now get that extra 5% (woooooh big damage!)
Meh...