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TK effusion as tier 2 skill

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular
TK effusion as tier 2 skill

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.16.2013 , 07:05 AM | #1
It would be nice to see TK effusion as a tier 2 skill and can swap places with concentration which is specific to TK tree, while effusion benefits all trees.

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-Sirus-
01.16.2013 , 09:33 AM | #2
Completely unneeded. If you're balance/hybrid, Psychic barrier + inner strength is more than enough. All your suggestion does is strengthen hybrid builds while providing no benefit to full build to which that tree belongs.

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MusicRider
01.16.2013 , 10:58 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by -Sirus- View Post
Completely unneeded. If you're balance/hybrid, Psychic barrier + inner strength is more than enough. All your suggestion does is strengthen hybrid builds while providing no benefit to full build to which that tree belongs.
Spending 7 points on a tree and getting one tier 2 skill from that one hardly makes you a hybrid. And in the end of the day there is nothing wrong with hybrids. Dots can make you ROOF when full balance. Psychic barrier is not enough unless you consider good play spending 30secs spamming tk throw till you get your force pool up a bit. Noble sacrifice wastes gcd time and creates deadlocks due to the reduction in force regeneration. The change might not be necessarily needed but it would be nice as it is much better than reserve or concentration for force management, and makes more sense considering that balance hardly uses non-proced disturbance.

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Kitru
01.16.2013 , 11:29 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
The change might not be necessarily needed but it would be nice as it is much better than reserve or concentration for force management, and makes more sense considering that balance hardly uses non-proced disturbance.
The entire point is that TK Effusion is incredibly strong and would be *disgustingly* powerful for Balance Sages. The sheer number of DoTs and multi-tick attacks that a Balance Sage throws out would almost guarantee permanent or near permanent 50% cost. The fact that it's a tier 4 talent should pretty well indicate that it's not intended to be used for Balance Sages. The fact that it's better than Concentration or Mental Longevity also makes sense: just because it's strong doesn't mean that everyone should have it. If it *were* a tier 2 talent, I can pretty much guarantee you that *every* spec, including healers, would take it (healers would rock it so that they can rolling Weaken Mind on enemies and benefit from ~2 50% casts every 9 seconds or so, and it wouldn't even be out of their way). It's a tier 4 because only TK should be taking it.
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MusicRider
01.16.2013 , 12:04 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The entire point is that TK Effusion is incredibly strong and would be *disgustingly* powerful for Balance Sages. The sheer number of DoTs and multi-tick attacks that a Balance Sage throws out would almost guarantee permanent or near permanent 50% cost. The fact that it's a tier 4 talent should pretty well indicate that it's not intended to be used for Balance Sages. The fact that it's better than Concentration or Mental Longevity also makes sense: just because it's strong doesn't mean that everyone should have it. If it *were* a tier 2 talent, I can pretty much guarantee you that *every* spec, including healers, would take it (healers would rock it so that they can rolling Weaken Mind on enemies and benefit from ~2 50% casts every 9 seconds or so, and it wouldn't even be out of their way). It's a tier 4 because only TK should be taking it.
Totally agree that it is powerful, although it is not "disgustingly" powerful for balance , simply because it will allow to carry on at the same pace that a balance sage has after 3-4 mins of freely casting his rotations before ROOF. It's not that it will make the damage, dps or burst go higher than the original levels. From the description you will see that it applies to any force attack and not to any tk specific making it particular to the tk tree (could be for example crit turbulence triggers effusion). This makes me thing that it is a skill that was meant for all trees, unlike concentration which benefits primarily and mostly the tk tree. My suggestion is a "light" one and certainly not in the form of whining. More in the lines of a small improvement that could benefit all sages/sorcs specs, and at least to me it makes sense.

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-Sirus-
01.16.2013 , 12:30 PM | #6
If you're doing balance right, you should spamming tk throw as you base attack anyway. It provides great baseline damage, is very force efficient, and gives you instant cast mind crush. If you're having force issues, its because you're force quaking and or projecting too much.

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Kitru
01.16.2013 , 12:46 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
It's not that it will make the damage, dps or burst go higher than the original levels.
You're operating under the illusion that the need to remain resource neutral *isn't* a factor in your DPS. It is. As such, removing that limitation would increase the DPS of the Balance spec without positively impacting TK in any way, acting as an overall buff to Balance's DPS. If you're running out of Force as Balance spec, you're doing it wrong. The fact that you want the most powerful Sage resource tool in addition to all of the stuff that Balance gets just makes it more apparent.

Quote:
From the description you will see that it applies to any force attack and not to any tk specific making it particular to the tk tree (could be for example crit turbulence triggers effusion). This makes me thing that it is a skill that was meant for all trees, unlike concentration which benefits primarily and mostly the tk tree.
Just because you *read* it as an ability meant for all trees rather than actually looking at what would happen has no impact, especially since how you read it has *way* less impact on the actual intention of the ability compared to where it is in the tree. If the developers intended on Telekinetic Effusion to be used by all specs, they probably would have put it where all specs could get it easily. They didn't. As such, they probably didn't intend for anyone except for TK to get it. The only reason it doesn't specifically mention the TK attacks is probably because it's kinda pointless to list *every single* cast that TK should/would be using (TkT, TkW, Weaken Mind, Disturbance, Turbulence, and Force Quake; potentially Project too depending on whether they thought that TK should/would be using it on the run) rather than just saying "all"; once you get beyond ~3-4 abilities, it's better to just say "all" and be done with it, because that's honestly what you're really saying.
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MusicRider
01.17.2013 , 05:49 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by -Sirus- View Post
If you're doing balance right, you should spamming tk throw as you base attack anyway. It provides great baseline damage, is very force efficient, and gives you instant cast mind crush. If you're having force issues, its because you're force quaking and or projecting too much.
Have to disagree with you there. Spamming tk throw is force efficient but it is hardly your most efficient damage output and playing balance right. Project on the other hand can do near 4k instant when crit and when proc, so of course it should be used. Don't often use earthquake (certainly not on less than 3 people) as it lacks burst. Also ROOF comes from frequent use of weaken mind which for some reason you did not mention and it is one of the key abilities of balance.

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MusicRider
01.17.2013 , 06:07 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
You're operating under the illusion that the need to remain resource neutral *isn't* a factor in your DPS. It is. As such, removing that limitation would increase the DPS of the Balance spec without positively impacting TK in any way, acting as an overall buff to Balance's DPS. If you're running out of Force as Balance spec, you're doing it wrong. The fact that you want the most powerful Sage resource tool in addition to all of the stuff that Balance gets just makes it more apparent.
Actually if you are not running out of force in balance it means that probably you are spamming tk throw all the time. Hardly your highest dps play. But hey, you have a full force pool.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Just because you *read* it as an ability meant for all trees rather than actually looking at what would happen has no impact, especially since how you read it has *way* less impact on the actual intention of the ability compared to where it is in the tree. If the developers intended on Telekinetic Effusion to be used by all specs, they probably would have put it where all specs could get it easily. They didn't. As such, they probably didn't intend for anyone except for TK to get it. The only reason it doesn't specifically mention the TK attacks is probably because it's kinda pointless to list *every single* cast that TK should/would be using (TkT, TkW, Weaken Mind, Disturbance, Turbulence, and Force Quake; potentially Project too depending on whether they thought that TK should/would be using it on the run) rather than just saying "all"; once you get beyond ~3-4 abilities, it's better to just say "all" and be done with it, because that's honestly what you're really saying.
So basically you are happy with brainless force management in tk and hybrids, and a ROOF balance?

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-Sirus-
01.17.2013 , 08:08 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
Have to disagree with you there. Spamming tk throw is force efficient but it is hardly your most efficient damage output and playing balance right. Project on the other hand can do near 4k instant when crit and when proc, so of course it should be used. Don't often use earthquake (certainly not on less than 3 people) as it lacks burst. Also ROOF comes from frequent use of weaken mind which for some reason you did not mention and it is one of the key abilities of balance.
I don't mention weaken mind or force in balance as abilities because they're a basic part of balance. Yes you're going to maintain your weaken mind, yes you use force in balance as soon as its off cool down, and yes you use mind crush as soon as its both off cool down and you have presence of mind proc. Everything in between is telekinetic throw for me.

However after reading how you talk multiple people and burst it sounds like you're talking more about PvP while I am talking more about PvE. In PvE, you don't spam extra weaken minds around on additional targets. In PvE, I wouldn't even put points into Upheaval because project is not a sustainable ability. In PvP, you're half expected to die before ROOF anyway. So, you might as well spend those points, project to your heart's content, and weaken mind every target you see. In the end, the change you suggestion would probably make you go a little longer before having to resort to tk spam. I still strongly disagree with the change because resource management is meant to be a key part of the combat system. The change would completely trivialize that for every sage spec in a way that I don't think is good for the game.