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Mc_Gregor's Avatar


Mc_Gregor
01.17.2013 , 01:10 AM | #21
I was more referring to accuracy calculations only giving crit as an example since crit chance is easy to track. With accuracy you can never tell what talents your target has, what cooldowns has he used or what defensive stats he has stacked. So, if your accuracy for rail shot is within 85%, 90%, 95% it means that in 15%, 10% or 5% cases your burst at the start will come below what you expect it to be. And since most players are pretty high up diminishing returns curve for surge swapping it for some accuracy will give you great returns for that first 100-150 rating. Same with crit, only 100-150 rating will provide you with some nice crit boost. So Im mostly for the middle approach here.

Sippix's Avatar


Sippix
01.17.2013 , 01:31 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by kozzie View Post
Funny and i are on Pot5 there is a lot of good players on the top end but imo a lot more bad players as well.
Yeah, I imagined that's how it was on a much more populated server. I kind of wish I would have rerolled when I had the chance.

Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
So let's just drop crit completely then and get rid of those stupid crit chance talents and set bonus! After all, it's possible to crit with every ability even with a 1% crit chance!

Obviously you will sometimes get lucky and perform better than average, and sometimes you'll get unlucky and perform worse. Over time though it will be very close to the expected numbers, and the higher you push those chances the less reliant you will be on getting an extra lucky streak in order to win a fight instead of being able to do it consistently.

Yes, I know about the set bonus. I simply used your own stated numbers for it, you really should have the 1% accuracy from legacy, 5% bonus to aim+cunning (the lack of which in the stats really hurts the SR build BTW), 5% boost to bonus damage and 5% crit chance bonus too, but I didn't feel like having to go trough and update everything.
I understand where you were going with the sarcasm, however, you have to realize that I've personally run both builds. In fact, I went from a Steely Resolve build (back in July 2012) to a Max Power build. I had to try it out, because it was recommended to me. What kind of competitive gamer would I be if I don't try things for myself? And you know what I found? Max Power simply out-performs Steely Resolve on every level. My crits are larger, my sustained DPS is better, my CGC is more efficient, and I rip through other Pyros. This is not just me running my mouth and thinking I know how to do things - I've actually done it for myself.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mc_Gregor View Post
Im sorry but while I liked your video and a little guide you are the one who is wrong here and taking percentages the wrong way. As previous poster said, following your logic one should just drop crit and accuracy to 1% altogether and get other stats instead since "they wont actually miss 99% of the time". 85% accuracy means you have 85% chance to hit, you will hit 85% of your rail shots and will miss 15% of your rail shots, its as simple as that. Run a parser, let it gather data for a couple of hours of PVP and you will see that you miss 15% of the time. Thats exactly what I see in operations when I analyze logs at the end if my accuracy is too low. Same goes for crit, If my stat sheet shows 40% chance to crit with tech attacks, after 1000 attacks number of crits will be damn close to 40%.
Operations and PVP are two different things. In Operations, especially on bosses, your up-time can be anywhere from 5-10 minutes. In PVP, I find my up-time on targets is 8-20 seconds. That's enough time for 2-4 Rail Shots. I will on occasion miss one. I VERY rarely miss two in a row.

If anyone is seriously doubting me, simply watch my videos. Stop being scared to drop some crit and accuracy to favor harder hits - It actually does work. There's simply no reason anyone should play one of the highest damage single-target PVP classes like they're trying to down raid bosses.
Mayhem Legacy
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miszcz's Avatar


miszcz
01.17.2013 , 06:22 AM | #23
after watching Sippix vids i've decided to give my PT a try and geared him for full power.
this is how i'm geared right now:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...6-f3976540434f

its notnin special but right now i rarely miss with RS .

if anyone have doubts about power build , i say give it a try and you wont regret

EDIT
any advice on how to imporve my gear to EWH would be appreciated

TirjacShiki's Avatar


TirjacShiki
01.17.2013 , 07:53 AM | #24
This guy is right about the power build giving you the most damage, but dropping your accuracy down to 90% is not a smart thing to do. You would be much better off getting it up to either 94% or 96% for ranged attacks.

He only mentions rail shot, but you gotta think about your other abilities that can miss also like rapid shots and unload (even though you dont use this much)

90% might work against noobs but when youre playing against good teams, one miss with rail shot (as rare as that could be) could cost you the game, its not worth the risk. Just use 2 War Hero Annihilator's MK-1 Enhancers which will get you up to 94% accuracy and more power than what youre using now, best of both worlds.

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
01.17.2013 , 10:14 AM | #25
Here's some number crunching:

Values (approximate bonus damage per point):
Aim = 0.2
Power = 0.23

Augments are the only place on gear where you can trade aim for power at a 1 to 1 ratio, so they are the only thing that is being considered in the following calculations.

Number of pieces of augmented gear: 14
Amount of additional stat (non-endurace) granted per augment: 18
14 x 18 = 252

Mark of Power grants 5% base stat modifier
Steely Resolve grants 3% Aim modifier per point up to maximum of 3 points (9% aim)

Gains from augments:
Aim:
0.2 x 252 = 50.4 bonus damage

Power:
0.23 x 252 = 57.96 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power:
252 x 0.05 + 252 = 264.6 x 0.2 = 52.92 bonus damage

Aim w/ Steely Resolve (1pt):
252 x 0.03 + 252 = 259.56 x 0.2 = 51.912 bonus damage

Aim w/ Steely Resolve (2pt):
252 x 0.06 + 252 = 267.12 x 0.2 = 53.424 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power and Steely Resolve (1pt):
252 x 0.08 + 252 = 272.16 x 0.2 = 54.432 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power and Steely Resolve (2pt):
252 x 0.11 + 252 = 279.72 x 0.2 = 55.944 bonus damage

Aim w/ Mark of Power and Steely Resolve (3pt):
252 x 0.14 + 252 = 287.28 x 0.2 = 57.456 bonus damage

Conclusion: Power adds more bonus damage per point than aim even with modifiers, however, Aim adds additional crit.

The question: Is it worth it?

Here's an example taken from a profile with a 4/6/31 build listed earlier in this thread:

Power augments

now here's the same profile except with Aim augments,

Aim augments

The power augment set has 668 ranged and 1023.9 tech bonus damage.
The aim augment set has 662.7 ranged and 1018.6 tech bonus damage.

The power augment set has 23.57% ranged and 30.74% tech crit.
The aim augment set has 24.92% ranged and 32.09% tech crit.

668 - 662.7, or 1023.9 - 1018.6 = 5.3 bonus damage
24.92 - 23.57, or 32.09 - 30.74 = 1.35% crit

Hence, in this case it would be up to the user to decide do I want 5.3 more bonus damage (power) or 1.35% more crit (aim).

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
01.17.2013 , 02:54 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Malds View Post
Ok enough of ths full power crap. Ive had enough of seeing people try to teach others how to ruin their powertechs.

30 - 31% crit chance including buff should be standard for pvp. Why? Because your thermal detonator, flame burst, explosive dart and dots hit for nothing without crits...period.

96 - 97% accuracy. Take some enhancements with power/accuracy and accuracy on implants for this. Why? If your railshot misses, your burst is completely nulified.

75-77% surge is fine, stacking it is just giving you horrible diminishing returns so take those accuracy and power enhancements once you hit around 75 surge.

Take steely resolve to at least 2 points and take full aim augments. Why? This increase your bonus damage and gives you crit so the middle skill buffs are worthless.

Im a ranked pvper. Take my advice if you want, your choice.

Seriously, full power is a joke. Just sayin'
Just so you guys know hes right^^^^

The added power and surge goes right out the window as soon as one of those RS misses and it will miss. Also switching enhancements out to gain accuracy you don't lose any power, your just stopping yourself from hitting massive diminishing returns with surge. Know what dropping most of that surge will do? It's only going to drop the crit on your RS by about 200 total damage.

Also whoopdie doo is your RS crit is 37% b/c you have the 15% form set bonus... if you do it right you should be critting RS damn close to 50% of the time(having a base of 30% crit before buffs). so your 200 extra dmg on rail shot is negated as soon as you miss or i crit once when you dont.

All in all what i've found to be the best build for pvp is 7/3/31, you get the armor reduction on RS in the AP tree and 6% aim from the shield tech tree. Accuracy 98 or higher crit 30%unbuffed and surge about 77%... all the rest goes to power also all aim augments.

I mean honestly guys, dont you die a little bit inside everytime you see RS miss/dodged. I mean i tear up a lil bit.

TirjacShiki's Avatar


TirjacShiki
01.17.2013 , 05:54 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
Just so you guys know hes right^^^^

The added power and surge goes right out the window as soon as one of those RS misses and it will miss. Also switching enhancements out to gain accuracy you don't lose any power, your just stopping yourself from hitting massive diminishing returns with surge. Know what dropping most of that surge will do? It's only going to drop the crit on your RS by about 200 total damage.

Also whoopdie doo is your RS crit is 37% b/c you have the 15% form set bonus... if you do it right you should be critting RS damn close to 50% of the time(having a base of 30% crit before buffs). so your 200 extra dmg on rail shot is negated as soon as you miss or i crit once when you dont.

All in all what i've found to be the best build for pvp is 7/3/31, you get the armor reduction on RS in the AP tree and 6% aim from the shield tech tree. Accuracy 98 or higher crit 30%unbuffed and surge about 77%... all the rest goes to power also all aim augments.

I mean honestly guys, dont you die a little bit inside everytime you see RS miss/dodged. I mean i tear up a lil bit.
ehhhh this should be corrected. To be clear, im not arguing that the 4/6/31 spec is BETTER than your 7/3/31 spec, my guildies run that and it balances out in some different ways.

But if youre wanting crit for all of these TECH attacks that the guy mentioned, you would be better off with 4/6/31, this spec gives you a higher TECH crit and a little bit lower RANGED crit. the 7/3/31 spec gives you a higher RANGED crit and a lower TECH crit.

And the tiny bit of extra damage you get from the 7/3/31 is balanced out by the extra damage you get to your FIRE abilities, which is about 50% of your damage.

I wouldn't say one is definitively better than the other, i personally prefer the power 4/6/31 build.

But if you want to do what that guy said, have a higher crit for your thermal detonater, flame burst, etc, all TECH attacks, you would be a fool to not run the 4/6/31 spec. I don't think he actually read what those 'useless talents' in the middle do.

EDIT: but like i said in an earlier post, i agree with the accuracy, you need at least 94-96%

nisallik's Avatar


nisallik
01.17.2013 , 11:07 PM | #28
I would try to gather up the numbers, but I figured others have done it and I could just ask!

How does a 7/3/31 build fair, as in taking just 6% in Steely Resolve and going for full power + aim augments?

TirjacShiki's Avatar


TirjacShiki
01.17.2013 , 11:15 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by nisallik View Post
I would try to gather up the numbers, but I figured others have done it and I could just ask!

How does a 7/3/31 build fair, as in taking just 6% in Steely Resolve and going for full power + aim augments?
read the post directly above yours, i explain the differences

nisallik's Avatar


nisallik
01.17.2013 , 11:27 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by TirjacShiki View Post
read the post directly above yours, i explain the differences
Oh I am blind, thanks for the answer!