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A Plague of Hate


BobaTed's Avatar


BobaTed
01.13.2013 , 09:17 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
By the way, this is one of those rare times on the internet where you realize you are talking to a person who has some points that make sense and presents them well, which is why I don't understand why you would make excuses for anyone who is not actually voicing his disappointment in a rational way, but instead resorts to "lol dead game is dead" tantrums.
I don't think I"m making excuses for anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. Rather, I'm suggesting that you and the OP are on the edge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by off-handedly dismissing posts that you've deemed "pathetic and sad," and I'm objecting to the nearly automatic characterization of such posters as rejects in real life when you clearly have no basis for doing so.

I'm not defending them; I'm attacking you. Or rather, your off-handed demonization of people who say things you don't like, in a way you don't like.

Seriously, you guys sound like picked-on kids who console themselves by saying that "bullies" are just jealous or have "other issues" at home or something.

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
01.13.2013 , 12:31 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
I don't think I"m making excuses for anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. Rather, I'm suggesting that you and the OP are on the edge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by off-handedly dismissing posts that you've deemed "pathetic and sad," and I'm objecting to the nearly automatic characterization of such posters as rejects in real life when you clearly have no basis for doing so.

I'm not defending them; I'm attacking you. Or rather, your off-handed demonization of people who say things you don't like, in a way you don't like.

Seriously, you guys sound like picked-on kids who console themselves by saying that "bullies" are just jealous or have "other issues" at home or something.
I have never been bullied nor would I ever let anyone bully me, trust me on that, but your last sentence is absolutely ridiculous. You really think people who bully others are 100% emotionally and mentally healthy? That nothing's wrong at home? Or is it, maybe, the other person's fault for...I don't know... existing in the same planet and thus provoking them? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but most bullies do face issues at home "or something". Don't take my word for it, look it up. Although, to be honest, I hardly think we trust the same sources.

Now, I don't know if we are starting to sound like the "picked-on kids", but you are definitely starting to sound like the people who appear on a certain "news" network and talk about the "legitimacy" of certain issues. In which case, everything you've said so far makes sense in a way.

Frankly, I'm starting to feel like I'm stuck in an endless loop with this discussion especially now, having read your opinion on what a bully is so this is the last post for me because a) I'm tired of talking about it and b) our opinions on what is constructive are completely different.

Not only are you making excuses for them, you are probably not even realizing that I have no problem with people voicing their issues but I don't consider "You sux" an argument that holds water.

Off the top of my head some of the things you've said so far: they feel let down, they feel frustrated, they feel their suggestions fall on deaf ears, they believe a better game would be made if SWTOR went the way of the dodo which would be better and closer to what they want (and btw, fat chance of that last part actually happening).

But yeah...not really making excuses...

Also, I love how I'm the one demonizing and characterizing people but "you sux" and "dead game is dead" are legitimate arguments made out of the goodness of people's hearts and with a genuine interest in the well-being of the game and how it's completely rational to be "mad" at a game. And I also love how people who spend their time paying and playing a game they don't enjoy or making posts about it being dead in blogs or youtube videos where people are enjoying it are not sad.

To sum up, you of course have the right to consider whining, "constructive criticism" or justified resentment. You also have the right to think I'm wrong and that people who endlessly whine about a game are right.
And I have the right to consider people who spend their days commenting on posts about a game they don't like with troll-like comments, sad and pathetic.

What it all comes down to is this:
You like the game -> you play the game
You don't like the game -> you suggest things and if you see no improvements in what you consider key factors to your satisfaction, you leave the game.

But between me and someone who is just mindlessly bashing the game on a blog post, I'm the one enjoying it and he's the one trying to bring down others.

Guess who's having more fun and most importantly, whose fun does not stem from hate

See you around.

zenas's Avatar


zenas
01.13.2013 , 01:01 PM | #23
I have read many of articles spanning from IGN, PC Gamer, Massively and Kotaku.
Simply because I cannot remember a game getting this much hate and trolling in a long time, if ever.
From all the information I have read, most of the hate seems to stem from Guild Wars 2 fanboys and Guild Wars 2 trolls.
Have talked to quite a few players in game, and they pretty much agree with my opinion. Usually they say "People on Guild Wars 2, really say how horrible this game is and hate on it. When it went free to play, I decided to try it out and it's honestly very good."
When people say this game plays like WOW, mechanic wise - that is a valid point and complaint. Or when they bash the quest system being like the same old thing, other than with voice acting. Again valid point. Same with the disappointment of on rails space.
I also feel like this game was released too early and if it was released how it is now, would have done better.
The fact that this game has a main story, that makes you feel like you "beat" the game, also makes people think this isn't more to do.
However at the time when it came out, there was no group finder, pvp wasn't as good, there wasn't enough content, no legacy system or free to play model.
So this game didn't struggle because it was bad, it just was missing a few key pieces that turned people off.
The fact I love the lore and have no problems with the wow mechanics, makes those complaints, not something that bother me personally.
The part that bothers me is the fanboys of GW2 for years they proclaimed how it was supposed to change MMO's, and do something completely different.
Yet all they did was create a game with no classes, bad dungeons, below average lore, a weird audio book way of telling a story and no end game content.
I think anyone other than some critics, and people who blindly love arena net and Guild Wars 2 can honestly come to the conclusion the game itself was a disappointment - at the very least compared to the hype.
I really do not understand the people who say this game has "no end game content" when Guild Wars 2, has none at all. This game has much more, I understand it's pretty much the same as WOW endgame give or take, but there is plenty to do.
Star Wars TOR, may get hate slung at it, including titles like TORRRAINWRECK and TORTANIC but in truth, it offers a refined experience to what's already out there.
Guild Wars 2 gets a lot of love for being a MMO "with people who have a life" but that is just a fancy way of saying it lacks any depth whatsoever.
I never had my account hacked in all my years of WOW, EVE, TOR. My first week with GW2, my account was hacked and the security was a joke at best. It's better now of course, but I have never seen so many account issues or gold spam in all my life.
The press hasn't helped this game at all, I get this game was given good reviews. However in the long run all they have done is feed the fire, and the Guild Wars 2 fan boys.
At least I have been seeing more and more people complaining about Guild Wars 2, the hate with this game seems to be slightly less.
I hope Bioware knows this expansion should be treated as the game's launch, that it will bring it new players and the people bored with other games on the market.
I understand the free to play system is horrible, complicated compare to other games and sucks for the most part.
However, they have a real chance to right the ship and regain some of the market lost to the idiotic hate, I swear people hate on this game so much it's almost like they get PAID.
Great post, op.
I understand, there is always a game hyped up to "change gaming" or "change a genre" but the fanboys of Guild Wars 2, were the most sickening I have ever personally experienced.
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment."

zenas's Avatar


zenas
01.13.2013 , 01:08 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
I don't think I"m making excuses for anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. Rather, I'm suggesting that you and the OP are on the edge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by off-handedly dismissing posts that you've deemed "pathetic and sad," and I'm objecting to the nearly automatic characterization of such posters as rejects in real life when you clearly have no basis for doing so.

I'm not defending them; I'm attacking you. Or rather, your off-handed demonization of people who say things you don't like, in a way you don't like.

Seriously, you guys sound like picked-on kids who console themselves by saying that "bullies" are just jealous or have "other issues" at home or something.
Regardless what he says, claims to like, or not like.
He is the typical Guild Wars 2 fanboy and or troll.
I fully expect him to respond with "LOL I don't even like GW2.", don't be fooled. He is a living; breathing example of my point.
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment."

Empiredivider's Avatar


Empiredivider
01.13.2013 , 11:21 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
I don't think I"m making excuses for anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. Rather, I'm suggesting that you and the OP are on the edge of throwing the baby out with the bathwater by off-handedly dismissing posts that you've deemed "pathetic and sad," and I'm objecting to the nearly automatic characterization of such posters as rejects in real life when you clearly have no basis for doing so.

I'm not defending them; I'm attacking you. Or rather, your off-handed demonization of people who say things you don't like, in a way you don't like.

Seriously, you guys sound like picked-on kids who console themselves by saying that "bullies" are just jealous or have "other issues" at home or something.
As the author of the OP, let me ask this. Is it your stance that a person can say what they want with out ridicule? If so you are skirting the edge of limiting free expression. It may be wrong to assume all people with opposing view points as "pathetic and sad" but that's clearly not my point. Your building a straw man to argue against. I am addressing the people who have nothing better to do than troll. My point is to conserve pathetic trolling of one thing, for something more positive in another, and we can all be happy.

BobaTed's Avatar


BobaTed
01.14.2013 , 10:12 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
I have never been bullied nor would I ever let anyone bully me, trust me on that, but your last sentence is absolutely ridiculous. You really think people who bully others are 100% emotionally and mentally healthy?
Not 100%, but in my experience they're usually as mentally healthy as anyone else (which is unfortunate, of course)... This is way off tangent, but the "bullying" I've seen is either misunderstood jibes, or more often, an exercise in dominance hierarchy against an easy mark in front of an easy audience. The latter is not something that should happen, but it doesn't happen because the perp has any more "issues" than anyone else (to wit, the ready audience who laughs along rather than stand up for the mark). I think I've only seen one case of bullying that stemmed from an underlying pathological condition.

Anyway, getting far afield, but I'll point out that the word is present in the OP, and, IMO, is used inappropriately.

Quote:
Frankly, I'm starting to feel like I'm stuck in an endless loop with this discussion especially now, having read your opinion on what a bully is so this is the last post for me because a) I'm tired of talking about it and b) our opinions on what is constructive are completely different.
I glean from a comment you make later that you're only "stuck" because you're having fun.

Quote:
Not only are you making excuses for them, you are probably not even realizing that I have no problem with people voicing their issues but I don't consider "You sux" an argument that holds water.
You called a whole group of people no-life loners, on no other basis than that they posted "You sux" posts. You are effectively guilty of the crime you seem to attribute to them. I'm pointing out how and why they're probably not no-life loners, any more than you or I. Calling that "making excuses" is just an attempt to deflect my argument (which I'll admit could probably have been made better).

Quote:
Also, I love how I'm the one demonizing and characterizing people but "you sux" and "dead game is dead" are legitimate arguments made out of the goodness of people's hearts and with a genuine interest in the well-being of the game and how it's completely rational to be "mad" at a game.
I said they were legitimate? Born of good intentions? I don't think so... Just pointing out that people who are frustrated or angry lash out - sometimes with reasonable arguments, sometimes without. Doesn't make 'em no-life loners.

Quote:
And I also love how people who spend their time paying and playing a game they don't enjoy or making posts about it being dead in blogs or youtube videos where people are enjoying it are not sad.
So one-off comments are sufficient grounds for determining the state of a person's home life? You should publish that. You'll be famous!

Quote:
You don't like the game -> you suggest things and if you see no improvements in what you consider key factors to your satisfaction, you leave the game.
Ah, see, now here's the thing. Some of the OP's examples are suggestions, though made in a back-handed way. Yet you (and possibly the OP), dismiss those quotes, and the people who made them, as "sad and pathetic."

Quote:
Guess who's having more fun and most importantly, whose fun does not stem from hate
So why bother wasting hate on "haters?"

Quote: Originally Posted by Empiredivider View Post
As the author of the OP, let me ask this. Is it your stance that a person can say what they want with out ridicule?
No, I'm saying that bemoaning the "hate" of others, and then heaping on your own, is hypocritical. I'm also saying that some folks tend to get oversensitized to "hate" to the point where they can no longer make the distinction between actual, spammy, opportunistic hate vs. negative posts that contain genuine feedback.

Empiredivider's Avatar


Empiredivider
01.22.2013 , 06:03 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
No, I'm saying that bemoaning the "hate" of others, and then heaping on your own, is hypocritical. I'm also saying that some folks tend to get oversensitized to "hate" to the point where they can no longer make the distinction between actual, spammy, opportunistic hate vs. negative posts that contain genuine feedback.

Again, you are clearly building a straw-man to argue against. I said in my post that "constructive criticism" is perfectly fine and is expected. I only claimed trolling as sad and pathetic. The only person who knows the intent of a comment is the commenter. If you are there to troll, I think you are sad and pathetic; if you are there to leave constructive criticism, we have no problem. Disliking people who troll is not hypocritical, unless we differ on the meaning of hypocritical.