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Open for suggestions, Zorn + Toth NMM with 2 Powertechs

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Open for suggestions, Zorn + Toth NMM with 2 Powertechs

PunisherAS's Avatar


PunisherAS
01.10.2013 , 11:05 PM | #1
Currently having extreme issues with the fight.
We're currently having to wait during a swap for the other boss to walk back towards the other tank THEN tank swap.
Its a pain in the *** because the tank who has fearful has to deal with fearful for a good 2-3 seconds. We can't just run through due to Toth likes to do his Jump animation causing his stacks to add while in mid air. Out tanks are currently having to save cooldowns for certain phases. For example, after the spike phase we have to make sure fearful is off because we're DPSing too fast? (retarded mechanic I know). And this takes off so much time because we have to stop DPS in mid fight or either prepare a cooldown for it.

We run with
Tanks: Powertech, Powertech
DPS: Marauder, Marauder, Merc, Sniper,
Heal: Operative, Operative

Any suggestions would be helpful.

Heres a good list of problems I've encountered.

1.) Tank Swapping
Due to not having an OP Assassin to force sprint, we're having to have to deal with a tank taking fearful for a few seconds to make sure Zoth + Zorn don't get stacks.
2.) DPS is TOO FAST
Due to DPSing too fast, we have to stop DPS BEFORE a tank swap to ensure that fearful is off taking off precious time off our timer. Is there certain %'s we should have to deal with? I've found 88%, 68%, 48%, 28% to be the tank swaps.
3.) We're all currently geared in Dread Guard gear, and we're taking too much damage.
I'm so scared because of all the times I see my health lower below 20%, what can we do to make less damage go out for the healers? Like what cooldowns do you use at what phases. We're both Biochem and have Adrenals.

Once again, any suggestions would be great.
We've gotten through this fight once, but we've always had someone die towards the end.
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Dragonbgone's Avatar


Dragonbgone
01.10.2013 , 11:45 PM | #2
I hope I can help you with this. The jump shouldn't be much of a problem. My guild does it with two Vanguard tanks currently and in this video with a guardian and vanguard, so we don't have the luxury of force sprint either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqP88R18yJE

We also have the same problem with DPS being too fast in our fights that we do now, holding for a few seconds shouldn't be an issue, usually we'll have our classes that can heal to pop off a heal or two while we wait.

If you have any questions I'd love to help you.
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PunisherAS's Avatar


PunisherAS
01.11.2013 , 12:03 AM | #3
I appreciate the help and video, but the differences damage/healing is a lot different from 8-man to 16-man.
We have two Melee on Toth and of course Me the Tank. There is too much damage going out which forces our 1 healer on our side to have to stress heal the Melee but try and prioritize the Tank over the Melee.

I did find this group of players that seems to be a great strat and we'll probably try it next Monday!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Od01BhR9M
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krakl's Avatar


krakl
01.11.2013 , 12:14 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by PunisherAS View Post
2.) DPS is TOO FAST
Due to DPSing too fast, we have to stop DPS BEFORE a tank swap to ensure that fearful is off taking off precious time off our timer. Is there certain %'s we should have to deal with? I've found 88%, 68%, 48%, 28% to be the tank swaps.
3.) We're all currently geared in Dread Guard gear, and we're taking too much damage.
I'm so scared because of all the times I see my health lower below 20%, what can we do to make less damage go out for the healers? Like what cooldowns do you use at what phases. We're both Biochem and have Adrenals.
Every guild will have more than ample DPS on this fight. There's barely a bump in health from HM. We stop DPS at 72%, 52%, 32% and 12% in order to let fearful wear off the tank on Toth's side. They usually have anywhere from 10-15 seconds remaining each time.

Whilst you're waiting for fearful to wear off, tell the melee dps on Toth's side to run far out of his slam range, unless they have the yellow circle. That way that won't take unnecessary damage. Additionally you can also get them to wait out of range after a tank swap until the first slam happens on Toth's side, then charge in and DPS.

This fight has insanely relaxed DPS requirements, so there shouldn't be any stress on the DPS. Get them to move away when necessary to avoid unnecessary damage.
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Dragonbgone's Avatar


Dragonbgone
01.11.2013 , 12:53 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by PunisherAS View Post
I appreciate the help and video, but the differences damage/healing is a lot different from 8-man to 16-man.
We have two Melee on Toth and of course Me the Tank. There is too much damage going out which forces our 1 healer on our side to have to stress heal the Melee but try and prioritize the Tank over the Melee.

I did find this group of players that seems to be a great strat and we'll probably try it next Monday!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Od01BhR9M
Are your healers standing in with the melee? We run two sage healers on Toth who are both dropping their salvation (big aoe heal) on the group. The healing on that side is much more than manageable than the zorn side. The damage in 16 man is greater than that of 8. If you have a sorc healer put him on that side and make sure he's standing with the melee dropping his puddle.
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iimagiicii's Avatar


iimagiicii
01.11.2013 , 10:19 AM | #6
sounds like mechanics, gg.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
01.11.2013 , 10:38 AM | #7
Here is how my guild normally do it, we have two tanks standing about 35 yards away from each other, both with the wall at their backs and bosses slightly in front on them, and then we have the rDPS on left side and mDPS on right. Healers are standing in middles so they are in range of both tanks and all DPS (in range of everyone to put it simple), just before they jump right group make sure to back away a bit to avoid fearfull (if their target is about to jump the just need to hug the wall to the right).

When Toth leaps, the tank on the right without any boss quickly needs to take Zorn, however the tank that has both bosses close does nothing and will thus have no boss on him during this time. Toth will still have aggro on the "right" tank even thought he leapt to the "left" tank, so he will start walking back, and as soon as he is going to hit the "right" tank, the "left" tank taunts him and he will walk back again. This way you will avoid a lot of damage in the beginning of the jump and your healers are able to compensate with healing to get everyone up, also important is for healers to keep both tanks at 90%+ just before the leap to avoid deaths.

By doing the tank swaps this way you will also be able to let a few seconds go, meaning that the fearfull debuff (if DPS is that high) will never be a problem even thought one tank might have a little left when the leap comes.

Some pictures of positioning:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2...tothlayout.png

Swap tactics:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4...ankswappng.png
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PunisherAS's Avatar


PunisherAS
01.11.2013 , 08:20 PM | #8
Is there a video of this method?
Reading it doesn't make sense. But seeing a video would definitely help.

Also that method involves the Ranged and Melee DPS switching sides constantly which seems to be more of a hassle rather than sitting still.
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AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.11.2013 , 08:34 PM | #9
To the best of my knowledge 2 Juggeranuts, 2 Assassins, 2 PTs, all work fine in any 8 man operation.
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Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
01.11.2013 , 10:01 PM | #10
the is nothing wrong with 2 powertech, those are excellent tanking class.

Force speed isn't needed, i would even bet more than half of the assassin/shadow don't even use it for the switch and down the boss pretty fine.

Watch your positioning, you dont have to place both boss 60 meter appart, 35 - 40 is good enough.

tank of toth just need to react fast, as usual. Just target zorn a few seconds before the jump, when itjump run a few meter and taunt as soon as the 30m range. The whole process should not take more than 1-2 seconds with good tank.

After the jump, the tank of zorn just let toth go back to the other tank a while then taunt it back before it reach it. that way, he never have both boss hitting him.

Obviously the tank of zorn should stop dps a few seconds before the jump, to make sure not having feedback from fearful. Analyse your log, i am pretty sure that if you think the tank is taking too much damage from the jump, it's due to the tank hitting zorn with the fearful debuff.
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