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Adding flashpoints a waste of time...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Adding flashpoints a waste of time...

lobotaru's Avatar


lobotaru
01.09.2013 , 10:01 AM | #1
... unless you change the underlying system for combat. Because you chose to blatantly rip off the underlying system of World of Warcraft (which was in decline when you were making the game, might I add), you are now suffering the exact same problems they have. However, the problem I want to talk about goes something like this: Playing a tank or healer rewards group play, but at the cost of progression in single player content. Since single player content makes up the bulk of the game and leveling experience, most people play as damage dealers (because it rewards the player with faster progression). The problem is only exacerbated in SWTOR because the stories that matter are single player. Waiting times to get into a flashpoint for most people is close to an hour, which effectively prevents the vast majority of players from playing flashpoints. So why invest time and money producing content that most people will never see? Instead, you should be investing time and money into changing the core game mechanics so that progression is unaffected by role (tank, healer, damage dealer). And no, dual spec is no more a solution to this than your group finder. Both those features are in World of Warcraft and they still have long wait times. Yes, they are a bit shorter, but the only reason they are any shorter is because of WoW's cross server group finder.
I should also stress that most MMO players have grown quite aware of the weaknesses of World of Warcraft, and any game that is effectively a WoW clone will not attract them because much of the content will be inaccessible until the player has clearly out-leveled it. So I'm begging you, please start working on changes to the core game mechanics to solve that problem instead of releasing flash points most people will never do.

kamed's Avatar


kamed
01.09.2013 , 10:12 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by lobotaru View Post
... unless you change the underlying system for combat. Because you chose to blatantly rip off the underlying system of World of Warcraft (which was in decline when you were making the game, might I add), you are now suffering the exact same problems they have. However, the problem I want to talk about goes something like this: Playing a tank or healer rewards group play, but at the cost of progression in single player content. Since single player content makes up the bulk of the game and leveling experience, most people play as damage dealers (because it rewards the player with faster progression). The problem is only exacerbated in SWTOR because the stories that matter are single player. Waiting times to get into a flashpoint for most people is close to an hour, which effectively prevents the vast majority of players from playing flashpoints. So why invest time and money producing content that most people will never see? Instead, you should be investing time and money into changing the core game mechanics so that progression is unaffected by role (tank, healer, damage dealer). And no, dual spec is no more a solution to this than your group finder. Both those features are in World of Warcraft and they still have long wait times. Yes, they are a bit shorter, but the only reason they are any shorter is because of WoW's cross server group finder.
I should also stress that most MMO players have grown quite aware of the weaknesses of World of Warcraft, and any game that is effectively a WoW clone will not attract them because much of the content will be inaccessible until the player has clearly out-leveled it. So I'm begging you, please start working on changes to the core game mechanics to solve that problem instead of releasing flash points most people will never do.
To be fair... WoW stole their combat system from other games that came out before them... This system is as old as pen and paper RPGs that you play on table tops which came out way before video games.

ShawnSixtyTwo's Avatar


ShawnSixtyTwo
01.09.2013 , 10:16 AM | #3
I haven't tried a tank yet, but leveling as a healer (Sawbones Scoundrel) was far and away the easiest of my 4 50s (plus another on the way at 38 now). It never even got hairy unless I did something stupid like aggro half the planet. Me & Corso just stomped our way across the galaxy and finished the class story at 47, having leveled on the way to the final boss so i still hadn't picked up my 47 abilities.

Not bragging, just saying that healers aren't slow or grindy to level. You have plenty of punch to deal with the standards while your tank keeps the strongs/golds interest, then toss a heal or two and clean up. As an op/smuggler you don't even get your AoE of doom until 48 - at least a Merc/Commando healer gets to level with theirs. I think people just think it's slow to level with a healer but if they gave it a try they'd change their mind.

Tanks... I have no experience as, so I can't comment.

All that said, I'm one of those who doesn't do flashpoints as I level. This has more to do with the fact that leveling is something I do when I want to play solo and/or might have to suddenly and without warning drop everything. When I'm sure I have time to dedicate to group content I'm either running an op with the guild or HM FPs for comms.
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kamed's Avatar


kamed
01.09.2013 , 10:28 AM | #4
Oh by the way OP, my first 2 toons were healer and tank. I did not have a hard time progressing in the game. The fact that this game practically gives you a companion to run around with helps make up being a full spec tank or healer. Also I practically get a FPs as soon as I hit the que button, so I don't ever have to wait so long.

Although when I play my DPS it takes forever to que since there's always a billion of them. But that goes the same with every MMO out there. I also die quicker and have longer downtime since I always have a DPS companion out at all times in every role.

I have played other MMOs and leveling a pure tank or healer there was horrible and took forever. This game gets easier and easier with every level 50 toon you get and companions you max out. With 450 presence at level 1, your companion can kill everything on her own.

physiology's Avatar


physiology
01.09.2013 , 10:33 AM | #5
Wrong forum, I don't even think there is a moderator over this particular forum (Star Wars lore discussion), try here
http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=79

Galbatorrix's Avatar


Galbatorrix
01.09.2013 , 10:45 AM | #6
I leveled my Scoundrel as a healer and my Vanguard as a tank. Not only were they really not that slow, but both were basically unstoppable when played with the right companion.

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
01.09.2013 , 10:49 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by lobotaru View Post
... unless you change the underlying system for combat. Because you chose to blatantly rip off the underlying system of World of Warcraft (which was in decline when you were making the game, might I add), you are now suffering the exact same problems they have. However, the problem I want to talk about goes something like this: Playing a tank or healer rewards group play, but at the cost of progression in single player content. Since single player content makes up the bulk of the game and leveling experience, most people play as damage dealers (because it rewards the player with faster progression). The problem is only exacerbated in SWTOR because the stories that matter are single player. Waiting times to get into a flashpoint for most people is close to an hour, which effectively prevents the vast majority of players from playing flashpoints. So why invest time and money producing content that most people will never see? Instead, you should be investing time and money into changing the core game mechanics so that progression is unaffected by role (tank, healer, damage dealer). And no, dual spec is no more a solution to this than your group finder. Both those features are in World of Warcraft and they still have long wait times. Yes, they are a bit shorter, but the only reason they are any shorter is because of WoW's cross server group finder.
I should also stress that most MMO players have grown quite aware of the weaknesses of World of Warcraft, and any game that is effectively a WoW clone will not attract them because much of the content will be inaccessible until the player has clearly out-leveled it. So I'm begging you, please start working on changes to the core game mechanics to solve that problem instead of releasing flash points most people will never do.
Firstly, wall of text FTL. Paragraph breaks and spaces are your friend.

Secondly, seriously? You say 'the same problem WoW is experiencing' yet I'm pretty sure Bioware would love to have the 'problems' WoW is experiencing. Last I checked they still have 9+ million subscribers and have not had to go to an F2P model. Bioware wouldn't be hurt by emulating them.

And an hour average wait for the group finder? You're of course speaking of DPS and what server are you on? I'm on Harbinger and have never, ever (as DPS) waited more than 20 minutes for a group to form and have had many instant queues on my healers and tanks.

In short you're arguments don't have validity.
"When you're bleeding out in a ditch on some muckball planet it's not headquarters that comes to save you, it's the guy next to you."

Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
01.09.2013 , 11:05 AM | #8
I levelled as full spec tank, companion made a huge differnece, it was actually fun and i was pleased i could level as full spec tank or healer on my Guardian and sage, you could never have done this in wow.

as for changing the style, yes i'd havehoped bioware woudl be more radical, but games that change things too radical put off the bulk of the genre playerbase if they're not smash hits, which you can't predict.

anyway, OP seems to be a bit ragey, it's still a better game than wow. but i hope they try more radicall things.

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.09.2013 , 11:07 AM | #9
I actually agree with the OP, but not because of flashpoint queues (I never use them - but that could be because I know I am in for a long wait so maybe I do agree), but because having most of the game solo, a small portion 2 player, a small portion + flashpoints 4 player, some endgame content 8 player and some more endgame content 16 player, while also mixing in solo endgame content is just way too all over the place.

They need 8 man groups, at all levels, and content that scales accordingly if you can't get that many people. Then not only will people know how to run with an 8 man group when they join ops, but the right amount of tanks, healers and dps will exist because they will be required all the way, as opposed to now when at least 50% of the tanks are useless (Unwanted) come endgame.

I also think they should spend their time making new levelling paths and concentrating on those who play alts rather than on the endgame crowd, because 1 path for all toons to level is very boring and because endgame content is always a minority event, just sadly full of loudmouths who want everything their own way.

Like most MMO's these days I love the way SWtoR feels, but as soon as I hit 50 it dies for me.
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

CassusVerda's Avatar


CassusVerda
01.09.2013 , 12:35 PM | #10
Cool Story bro WRONG AREA FOR THIS TOPIC! Nobody in game design for this game looks in this area so your complaints are pointlessly wasted in this area......>_<
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