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Degradation of force lightning and coming back to the light side concepts in EU.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Degradation of force lightning and coming back to the light side concepts in EU.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.07.2013 , 12:07 PM | #1
Does anyone else feel the concept of force lightning was degraded by EU (and even PT)? Purely by watching OT one gets a feeling that force lightning is extremely rare, unique and ultimate force ability that only a handful of Sith was able to learn throughout the history. The Emperor makes it look like one doesn't even need a lightsabre once he/she possess this ability. On the other hand EU regards and treats force lightning as something quite common. Also deflecting lightning with lightsabre seems stupid to me too.

Also, the OT pretty much established that once you turn to the dark side it is almost impossible to come back (both Yoda and Obi-Wan even confirmed it). That of course makes Anakin's redemption an extraordinary and unique feat. While in EU every nobody can do it.

Anyone else feels the same?
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.07.2013 , 12:09 PM | #2
Palpatine originally was suppose to be the only sith lord ever to create Force Lighting, which shows how powerful he is and it adds that he can create powers on a whim. But for whatever reason, that was taken out and now we got all sorts of sith and the like doing it.

As for going back to the light side, yes it was difficult to do but not impossible but this all goes back to things changing around over the course of time.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
01.08.2013 , 01:57 PM | #3
What is EU and what is PT?

and I thought Revan was the only other one to traverse the 2 sides of the force. I'm not aware of anyone else who did.

And yes the lightning thing does seem a bit surprising, Empeorro could easily ahve taught Dooku though, and deflection well, Yoda obviously knew something about doing that, if you can do it with your hands via the force, surely it is even easier to do it via the force through a force weapon like a lightsaber.. doesn't mean it's easy to do, i imagine it's more than just raising your lightsaber, you need to use the force to refocus the path to a single point like your hand or like a lightsaber..

Yoda could have taught the JEdi this after his encounter with Dooku... and where did he learn that except from the last SIth war nearly 1000 years ago. A thousand years was a long long long time ago,... things like force lightning could have been completely lost and only useable by a few very powerful Sith and only deflectable by equaly powerful JEdi, i mean Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan were 3 of the most powerful Jedi in that timeline, the only other JEdi that could have done that was ofc Mace Windu, that is sitll a very small number.

ANd yes ofc it requires focus, , as we see Palpatine is able to zap Vader in Episode VI, something he should have been able to deflect under normal circumstance, but he was so conflicted, besides the EMperor would have grown.

Anyway.. we are thinking too linearly about this, we assume that stronger in the force means equally stronger in every area of its use, perhaps the area that requires use of things like force lightning is different from the bit that requires healing, differnet from that that allows you to prophecy and see visions of the future as well as predictive actions, (seeing the future just before it happens and how far in the immediate future you can see attacks -which is determined by your level of strength) there is also kinetic strength in the force, which would determine how powerful things like force jump, force speed are.

and things like lightning could utilise different sections of the force, maybe an intesne desire to destroy, fuelled by hate and passion.. we just don't know, and they don't either, cos the more vague it is the more believable it is.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.08.2013 , 02:16 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Macetheace View Post
What is EU and what is PT?

and I thought Revan was the only other one to traverse the 2 sides of the force. I'm not aware of anyone else who did.
1. EU=Expanded Universe, which is anything outside of the movies. PT= Prequel Trilogy.

2. Depends on what you mean by traverse both sides.


As to the OP: Lightning was supposed to be a Palpatine only power, but now it is something every Sith Lord seems to use.

And redemption isn't all that impossible. Sometimes it just takes the right push, just like falling to the Dark Side. In the case of Anakin Skywalker, love was a cause of his fall and redemption. For Ulic Qel-Droma, his desire for revenge after the death of Arca Jeth caused his fall, and his remorse over killing his brother (and then getting his connection to The Force severed) caused him to come back. Though Ulic didn't necessarily come back, but he did find some measure of peace in training the young Vima Sunrider.

In short, redemption isn't impossible and lightning has turned into Force Push. Soon Oneness will share the same fate...
Added Chapter 65 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Macetheace's Avatar


Macetheace
01.08.2013 , 02:24 PM | #5
that's not a bad thing, to beocme one with the force shoudl be the goal of all the jedi, it is understanble that in periods of great heights and unity, that this would be alot more common,a nd in periods after great darkness and confusion, it would be very difficult.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.08.2013 , 03:26 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Macetheace View Post
Empeorro could easily ahve taught Dooku though,
The point I am trying to make is that force lightning should be extremely rare, if not even "Sidious-only" ability. Its not just about learning something. Its about power, talent and uniqueness. I will try to throw in an example: even if Usain Bolt teaches others how to run they will never break the world record. So an equivalent would be: even if Sidious was teaching Dooku about the force he had no potential to actually produce something like force lightning. But anyway I was mainly talking about EU. In SWTOR almost every "nobody Sith" has lighting. No one should have had it with possible exception of SIth Emperor. (though I think almighty 1000 years old Sith Emperor is another ridiculous thing)

Quote: Originally Posted by Macetheace View Post
and I thought Revan was the only other one to traverse the 2 sides of the force. I'm not aware of anyone else who did.
I will give you just a few names from EU who turned back to the light side :
Spoiler

I mean EU turned the concept into a joke.

Same thing goes for lightning deflection. Even though in PT only 3-4 Jedi are shown to able to do it, in EU pretty much every Jedi can do it. Which is imo ridiculous.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.08.2013 , 03:49 PM | #7
Why is it ridiculous to deflect Force Lighting?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.08.2013 , 04:05 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Why is it ridiculous to deflect Force Lighting?
If you disperse lightning like Sidious did there is no way you will catch it all with a tiny blade. And even if you did catch it where would that energy go? Into the hilt, through your hands and body into the ground which means you did absolutely nothing.

Now from a less technical point of view. As I mentioned in my original post, it degrades the force lightning. The Sidious in OT made it look like he doesn't even need a lightsabre when he had lightning.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.08.2013 , 04:10 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
If you disperse lightning like Sidious did there is no way you will catch it all with a tiny blade. And even if you did catch it where would that energy go? Into the hilt, through your hands and body into the ground which means you did absolutely nothing.

Now from a less technical point of view. As I mentioned in my original post, it degrades the force lightning. The Sidious in OT made it look like he doesn't even need a lightsabre when he had lightning.
Well Sidious's lighting was far more powerful then anyone before him, so Sidious could disperse it in such a manner. The energy from the lighting though? Perhaps it just gets absorbed into the blade itself. Though should note, that it always didn't work, Sidious did disarm Yoda via Force Lighting.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.08.2013 , 04:51 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
I will give you just a few names from EU who turned back to the light side :
Spoiler

I mean EU turned the concept into a joke.
Half of those you named were mind-controlled or possessed.

However, you are right that quite a few darksiders have turned to the light (not necessarily Back to the light, the Sith Lord you mentioned was raised DS). However, the OT also has only one example of a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side.

I actually like the concept that there is always hope a darksider could turn back to the light.

Spoiler or "Darth Bane: Rule of Two"

Spoiler



I agree with you about Force lightning, though. Especially, I think it shouldn't be a combat ability. It is a way to kill people painfully, because you want to see them suffer. (The Emperor could have snapped Luke's neck, if he wanted him to die. But he wanted him to suffer.)
I especially don't like the lightning-insta-kills the Inquisitor in this game does in cutscenes.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall