Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Too Much Damage? What?


Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.09.2013 , 09:51 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
800 to 900 dps where?
On pretty much any boss without a large amount of tank downtime. 900 is the top end of what I can pull, but I regularly manage in ~800. Keep in mind, I also built myself to generate maximum threat without influencing my mitigation. However, even on my VG and Guardian alt tanks, I'm pulling over 700 DPS on bosses, as is my Guardian co-tank. If you're only pulling 500 DPS on a fight where a sent can manage 2k+, your tank is just bad.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

ShadowTech's Avatar


ShadowTech
01.09.2013 , 10:06 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
On pretty much any boss without a large amount of tank downtime. 900 is the top end of what I can pull, but I regularly manage in ~800. Keep in mind, I also built myself to generate maximum threat without influencing my mitigation. However, even on my VG and Guardian alt tanks, I'm pulling over 700 DPS on bosses, as is my Guardian co-tank. If you're only pulling 500 DPS on a fight where a sent can manage 2k+, your tank is just bad.
Agreed. My VG tank alt is pulling close to 500 in most fights now and he's no where near optimized or running the higher lvl raids yet. The only reason I'm losing aggro to any of my guild mates is that they are still way further ahead of that toon on gear.

MythicalKnight's Avatar


MythicalKnight
01.10.2013 , 11:33 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
I suggest you NEVER complain when someone's work isn't bad. You never complain about bugs, too, I guess
Lazy coding is just when a dev doesn't prepare a solution for a given situation. I can remember a few games, here are a few examples :

In Valkyrie Profile, when you fail hard, Ferya isn't "happy" and attacks you. This fight should be impossible to win, but with a decent team, you can beat her. but even if you do, the video is the same as if you lost, Freya is telling Odin how she "solved" the problem.
In Valkirye profile, Covenant of the pume, if you use the Plume too much, Freya comes (again) for a fight. she's unkillable without cheats, but with cheats you can kill her, but you still get a wonderful Game Over as if you died.
In Phantasy Star 2, you are fighting Dark Force early in the game. Everything is made to make you lose and one of your companions die to save you. But if you kill him, the game resumes but you are trapped in the dungeon and cannot do anything.

But I can give you some counter-examples : in Chrno Trigger, you have to fight Lavos before early in the game. You are supposed to lose, but if you win, you are getting a special ending.
In False Emperor, if you go alone, Malgus, instead of saying that one of us are woved to join the new Empire, make a comment about how coming alone is bold and foolish.
None of those games are MMOs (lets keep this apples to apples yes?) and why in the world would you solo FE?? I take it you are so overgreared that you're doing the storymode? Why does anyone do storymode FE (except for the HK part)?

Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
A "bug" (in fact, a lazy coding), that makes the fight a lot easier than designed, will be corrected, I don't understand how you can accept that a lazy coding (or a "bug") that makes the fight harder than designed. Who you accept that, if your tank doesn't take enough damage, the boss enrages just after the start of he fight ? Would ask your tank to remove some pieces of stuff ?
And I don't understand why you have such a problem holding back DPS so you don't encounter a harder fight. I mean, it should be simple right? Just stop pressing buttons for a few seconds. There's no reason why everyone in your raid should be doing KEYBOARD FACE SMASH!! ARGH! ARGH! ARGH! *SLAM* *SLAM* *SLAM*
Talking heads? What talking heads?

IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
01.10.2013 , 11:55 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
800 to 900 dps where? On a dummy or overall during a fight? Because if you're pulling 800 dps overall during a fight I call bull. The only time ever do even remotely close to 900 DPS Overall is during HM Kephass the Undying, otherwise I'm doing around 500-700 DPS Overall per fight, Firebrand being my current non-mechanically augmented best fight with 712 DPS overall.

On Topic:

Too much DPS can and does break certain fights, primarily Toth & Zorn and The Writhing Horror.

In Toth & Zorn we've had DPS push the Phases (which are based off of percentage which I feel is rather dumb) so far that at mechanics occur 15-20 seconds (at most like 45 on SM fun raids) before certain cooldowns finish (Stun breaker and Deflection for Shadows) causing me personally to be at the Whims of RNG during Berserk or having to take a Spike during a Red Circle phase. Not to mention Fearful not falling off before the next swap.

In The Writhing Horror the point where DPS breaks the fight is when you push the boss under 15% while the third Jealous Mate is still up and the incoming damage is just too high for the healers and tanks to be able to keep up.
Definitely, my jugg has over 1800 strength and does 500-700 dps on most fights. Most sins range between 650-750 or so. PT's a bit lower.
As I said, as a carnage Mara my threat goes in 4k-6.5k+ spikes, so it's not too uncommon to have me rip my tanks aggro a few times even with guard during the first minute or so of a fight. (On my last run of NiM EC F&S, I ran 2.4k dps until the 1st shield phase, realistically no tank, no matter how good they are is going to be able to hold aggro reliably through that entire duration. Bad tanks are pathetically bad though, ripping 6+ times etc... Any good Mara knows this.

I do have a counter to your last statement though, we did manage to push the burn phase of writhing horror this past week before the 3rd jealous male with a PT/Sniper/Mara/Merc DPS combo. I stayed on the boss the entire time, didn't touch adds while other DPS torched the two males and adds.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.10.2013 , 12:36 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by IAmViiOLENT View Post
On my last run of NiM EC F&S, I ran 2.4k dps until the 1st shield phase, realistically no tank, no matter how good they are is going to be able to hold aggro reliably through that entire duration.
I *really* wish we were on the same faction and server. I love going up against massive threat hogs to see if they can actually pull off of me: I've made a bet with my guild that I will pay 100k into the gbank every time a DPS pulls threat off of me on a boss fight; thus far, only 1 person has ever done it and it was a PT VG blowing all of his CDs at once while getting a really lucky string of crits and he just *barely* managed it since he was standing in the melee threat range; it took me all of 5 seconds to get it back without using Taunt and he didn't even have a Guard on him.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

mxlm's Avatar


mxlm
01.10.2013 , 02:21 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by BlznSmri View Post
In The Writhing Horror the point where DPS breaks the fight is when you push the boss under 15% while the third Jealous Mate is still up and the incoming damage is just too high for the healers and tanks to be able to keep up.
My group regularly starts the burn phase before the third male appears. We may have wiped the first time (I don't really remember), but it hasn't been an issue since. Just kill the boss and then deal with the male. Things might get exciting if you swap tanks and spawn adds during the burn phase, so don't do that (although it sounds as though IamViolent's group did just that and got through it fine, so maybe do that if you like excitement).

Z&T, yeah. But that's easily solved by having one person per side paying attention to the bosses and calling out when it's time to pause dps.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
01.10.2013 , 02:43 PM | #57
Just an FYi, arguing with Kitru 99% chance your gonna lose, guy knows his sh*t. I'm sure he could post logs up here to support him.

IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
01.10.2013 , 03:59 PM | #58
He can post logs of maintaining 3k+ tps for 30 seconds without a taunt... Uh huh. At the moment, I'm running as the highest dps on our server, I'd love to see a tank that never loses aggro because I want one on our server.

arkitip's Avatar


arkitip
01.10.2013 , 04:18 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
Just an FYi, arguing with Kitru 99% chance your gonna lose, guy knows his sh*t. I'm sure he could post logs up here to support him.
Theorycrafting isn't the same as performance. There are people out there that have grouped/guilded with him and know exactly what he can and can't do.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.10.2013 , 05:40 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by IAmViiOLENT View Post
He can post logs of maintaining 3k+ tps for 30 seconds without a taunt... Uh huh. At the moment, I'm running as the highest dps on our server, I'd love to see a tank that never loses aggro because I want one on our server.
Hmmm. you lost your credibility when you said "highest DPS on my server". did you checed against EVEY SINGLE PLAYER on your server (both sides) ?

With my Shadow, Rakata Hilt, 2 DG piece + 2 Armoring (Wrist and Waist), my logs are saying that I can be around 2K, 2.2K TPS without taunting. I wouldn't be so surprised if a better Shadow can reach 3K TPS within the first 30s of the fight, even if he needs to use a DPS relic.

And by the way, I'd really like to see a log with more than 3K TPS (from your DPS, of course) over 30s