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Too Much Damage? What?


Zarakaar's Avatar


Zarakaar
01.08.2013 , 01:27 PM | #31
Complaining about stuff you overgear being a little complicated to if push phases is silly.

I defy you to push HM T&Z phases in only Rakata gear. If your group is in well chosen Black Hole to Dread Guard gear, there's no reason you should be fighting normal or hard mode T&Z.

Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
01.08.2013 , 03:03 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
Kephess the Undying in TFB is the same story, in SM when upon entering the last phase if you knock down the pillar at 10% and nuke with overgeared people, you can have him dead before he comes up. In HM you can already bring him down to 3 ~ 4%. A few more gear upgrades and there too you can simply skip the last phase.
this make no sense.

there is nothing easier in game than just stop DPS. It has been our strat since our very first kill 3 month ago to bring kephess to 11% stop dps, drop a pillar on it and stun it, than use every cooldown, inspiration, adrenal to bring it as low as possible before it get out of stun.

following the same strat for the past 3 month has been a success for us. having more raid dps make the fight far easier, as during the stun we can bring it closer and closer to 0% and it shorten the phase 3 considerably.

Even in wow, they have been many boss where a "stop dps" is a viable strategy. Last in my mind was heroic ragnaros, keeping a son of flame alive and killing it at the last moment. Another one was heroic spine of death wing, we keep one of the big add alive and wait for 9 blood pool on the ground, then kill it. same for the tentacule that grip.

Stop DPS is a PVE strategy tool ans must be learned to progress in PVE. If your raid team is incapable of stopping DPS on demand, it does not deserve to down bosses. period.

Sorry to be harsh, that's the truth.
Shadow | Kinetic Combat

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.08.2013 , 04:43 PM | #33
By the logic of some in this thread, Force Leech is a bug. I have built a pretty good healer both gear wise and knowing my abilities, so it is really unfair that Force Leech pops up and I canít just keep mindlessly pressing buttons. It isnít fair. (sarcasm for those that canít tell).

Think Kitru and MythicalKnight pretty much explained it really well.
Quote: Originally Posted by Vankris View Post
Stop DPS is a PVE strategy tool and must be learned to progress in PVE.
QFT

In a number of fight we will slow down, stop or speed up dps on the order of our ops leader (speed up usually means healers add dps to the fight). Once everyone in the group learned to do this, progression got faster and wipes got fewer.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.08.2013 , 06:40 PM | #34
I stop reading this thread, some are using ******** to defend this ****.
No, Force Leech isn't the same thing : force Leech doesn't ask to the healer to "slow down", but to stop healing a tank and focus on the second one. Something similar of the Shield when you fight the Pilgrim, or Fearful against Zorn. Something similar with a healer would be "you NEED to continue healing, but without getting above 1800 HPS or you tank dies. Thank you !".

The ones pushing buttons mindlessly are exactly the ones like mikebevo : they don't try to get the best of their classes, they just follow what others took hours, even days to understand, and then think that they are good to give us a lecture.

I find disgusting oh having spent countless hours to understand how I should play my char, what gear I must use to get the best of my play, where I must place my char, etc and then finding that the ones like mikebevo, who don't even care to take the best out of their char, have an easier job. Do you realize that this attitude is like asking to the players "get lazy, your life will be easier" ? Punishing the best elements and asking them to be "in the average" shouldn't even be considered. But when I see folks defending this idea and saying that "you are mindlessly pushing buttons", I understand why the World is getting dumber every day.

Having to stop my DPS to follow a mechanism designed by the devs : ok.
Having to stop my DPS because the same devs were too lazy to prevent the issue : no.

mxlm's Avatar


mxlm
01.08.2013 , 07:29 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by -Sirus- View Post
If you claim to get the twisted spawns during your third Jealous Mate, I'd express severe doubt until you could prove it with a combat log.
I'm pretty confident that any group with the dps to clear NiEC has the dps to start the burn phase before the third Male appears.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.09.2013 , 05:09 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Vankris View Post
so asking dps to stop dps in order to have a smooth phase transition is "punishing" DPS? seriously?

It's like you say, being able to dish out top dps, having read guide on the net and practice your rotation, that is the easy part, any morron can do it.

Being a good teammate, playing your part to down a boss, that means dishing top damage when needed, and stop dps when needed, that is what i means to be a good PVE player. Playing for the team, not for the damage meters.

So yeah, STOP DPS is acceptable. Not respecting it makes you a bad player, not a bad mechanics
I wanted to ignore this thread, but I really the ones like you, saying "all noobs, except me". What do you think we do ? Wipes during hours ? We simply do what you ask for : stop DPS. Any newbie can do that, that's not "being a good teamate" to have some common sense.

But, again,"all noobs except me" is your moto .....

Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
01.09.2013 , 05:15 AM | #37
i don't get what you're saying.

i do not consider myself a great PVE player, at aleast a good team player.
And yes, it feels from your post that you only want tank and spank fight, with no technical difficulty, which is boring.

the mechanics of the boss are the way they are, it's perfectly doable, there are no gamebreaking bug, there are no bug at all. If the only thing to do is stop DPS for a few seconds then you stop.

You do whatever is needed to down a boss. It becomes part of your strat. it's not rocket science.
Shadow | Kinetic Combat

Arovien's Avatar


Arovien
01.09.2013 , 06:28 AM | #38
Yes, having too much damage can be a bad thing in certain fights or fight phases. It is a mechanic that makes DPS into a balancing act, which can generate new strategy and tactic changes to operation groups that up their DPS between attempting a particular fight. Translation: it keeps things spicy even if you have done the fight 49789743a3 times. Don't like the mechanic? Don't attempt the bosses. Still want your loot? Learn to like it and adapt to possible DPS imbalance. No one likes dieing/wiping yet we still attempt bosses for the sake of loot/progression.

TLDR: LEARN THE FIGHTS (EVEN THE PART WHERE **** DOESN'T GO THE WAY YOU PLANNED)

-Captain Obvious
Aro'Vien - Sage Healer

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.09.2013 , 11:46 AM | #39
I find it funny that Hovergame is upset about this mechanic, but in Stealth Detection greater than standard agro range He is defending that game mechanic. My guess is maybe he does not have a stealth character.

I would like to apologize for my jokingly sarcastic comment above. I understand how some people can misunderstand what I meant by it.

My main on the imperial and republic sides are healers, but I do play dps too. I understand that it isnít as easy as people say it is, personally I find healing the easiest class in game. Especially when you have great tanks and dps in the group, but I also understand when you have dps that only cares about the highest dps numbers possible that healing, tanking and everything else can become extremely difficult. In progression mitigating damage and threat is almost as important as dps numbers to the success of the group.

Again apologizes, to anyone I may have offended; I just donít see how a mechanic that makes you adapt to a situation within a game is a bad thing. Which is why I agree with Hovergame in the stealth thread even though my first two toons to 50 were my sawbones (main) and a shadow.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.09.2013 , 12:44 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
I find it funny that Hovergame is upset about this mechanic, but in Stealth Detection greater than standard agro range He is defending that game mechanic. My guess is maybe he does not have a stealth character.

I would like to apologize for my jokingly sarcastic comment above. I understand how some people can misunderstand what I meant by it.

My main on the imperial and republic sides are healers, but I do play dps too. I understand that it isnít as easy as people say it is, personally I find healing the easiest class in game. Especially when you have great tanks and dps in the group, but I also understand when you have dps that only cares about the highest dps numbers possible that healing, tanking and everything else can become extremely difficult. In progression mitigating damage and threat is almost as important as dps numbers to the success of the group.

Again apologizes, to anyone I may have offended; I just donít see how a mechanic that makes you adapt to a situation within a game is a bad thing. Which is why I agree with Hovergame in the stealth thread even though my first two toons to 50 were my sawbones (main) and a shadow.
More than 60 days (time saw with /played) played with my Shadow. Fail, boy. Don't try to guess about me next time, you'll fail again.
Again, the mechanism in Zorn and toth is lazy coding. The mechanism about the WH is intended and, if you DPs a bit more, you can even skip the 3rd JM. See the difference ? What's next ? A boss becomes unkillable if you are above 2K DPS ?