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Too Much Damage? What?


grkguru's Avatar


grkguru
01.07.2013 , 12:24 AM | #1
Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.

Spoletta's Avatar


Spoletta
01.07.2013 , 12:57 AM | #2
Right, completely unacceptable. How dare they let a bug that affects maybe 1 party per server and can be easily avoided and instead focus on those bugs that the other common mortals have???

Ceile's Avatar


Ceile
01.07.2013 , 01:20 AM | #3
I've ran into this issue with Hard Mode Kaon Under Siege. Do not remember the boss. It was the giant Rakghoul that you had to run in a circle.
But this has an easy fix: Fight without a chestpiece or leggings. It was pretty fun to fight him in only underwear, XD

The only time this is a problem is with dual bosses. I've seen weird issues arise when the party focuses down one of the bosses then switches around 10%, kills the other boss, then finishes off the original.
But this case has an easy fix as well: Have some of the Damage Dealers focus down the other boss.
And if you still have problems, fight nude.

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
01.07.2013 , 01:35 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.
Bug? You mean you ought to learn how to play right?

First of all, we always push Zorn & Toth, and he doesn't jump during a red circle phase if you go beyond the treshold, but he instantly jumps the moment it ends. It's a non-issue, simply have your tanks anticipate and directly swap along. You can easily time it. Sure there's no big, red, flashing text on your screen indicating it, but little tact comes a long way.

As for the Writhing Horror, also, working as intended. The little adds spawn based on the debuff on the tank getting lost. The red circle spawn coincidental with the spawning of the add. So usually that's where a tank swaps, adds come in on a number based on the stack count the tank had, and you go on. If however tanks swap prematurely, or a tank loses aggro and fails to retake aggro prior to his stacks run out (which by the way is roughly 5 ~ 10 seconds or so) you WILL get the adds early.

In both scenarios, it's just a matter of learning to tank. Throw guard on your highest threat pulling DPS as both tanks to reduce their threat. Make effective use of your taunts within your rotation. Do a high aggro opener, do your short CD taunt, about 7 seconds later your high CD taunt followed by the short CD taunt directly after the jump. If your group still manages to pull threat, let them more effectively use their threat reduction skills as DPS.
Member of <Helix>

Toweleeeie's Avatar


Toweleeeie
01.07.2013 , 01:53 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.
This has happened to me on EC HM and Kaon.
Can I has more Sandbox?

Toweleeeie's Avatar


Toweleeeie
01.07.2013 , 01:56 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Spoletta View Post
Right, completely unacceptable. How dare they let a bug that affects maybe 1 party per server and can be easily avoided and instead focus on those bugs that the other common mortals have???
Really? I know at least 3 Guilds this happens to on Harbinger; Momentum, MLP, and EoM (Republic side)
Can I has more Sandbox?

Aelther's Avatar


Aelther
01.07.2013 , 02:54 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by grkguru View Post
Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.
Well my group simply stops dps at certain times to avoid skipping phases. But yeah it's annoying. You come to a new Operation and you try to do as much dps as possible and it becomes habit, after a while you get experienced and have to try to make less and less dps, or get punished by bugs... makes no sense....

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
01.07.2013 , 03:06 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelther View Post
Well my group simply stops dps at certain times to avoid skipping phases. But yeah it's annoying. You come to a new Operation and you try to do as much dps as possible and it becomes habit, after a while you get experienced and have to try to make less and less dps, or get punished by bugs... makes no sense....
The thing though is, increased DPS and skipping phases doesn't punish you, as long as the raiding team is flexible enough to adapt to it and respond more rapidly.

For example on Warlord Kephess in EC you can also skip, by downing the giant droid in 2 phases rather than 3. This will make Kephess come down whilst the 2 last droids appear. Allowing for a tank to pull in Kephess on top of the smaller droids, facing away from the raid. And simply having the raid nuke both Kephess and the droids at the same time. Something which only helps further speeding up the kill.

Firebrand and Stormcaller you can also pump hard enough in SM to skip DD and the tank armor debuff if the DPS plan their burst phases well.

Kephess the Undying in TFB is the same story, in SM when upon entering the last phase if you knock down the pillar at 10% and nuke with overgeared people, you can have him dead before he comes up. In HM you can already bring him down to 3 ~ 4%. A few more gear upgrades and there too you can simply skip the last phase.

The real question is, why do additional redundant phases, whilst it's perfectly possible to just pump through them without it running into a situation where the boss can't be killed?
Member of <Helix>

Suzina's Avatar


Suzina
01.07.2013 , 04:42 AM | #9
There have always been bugs due to having too much DPS.

Gharj, since beta, has decided that being DPS'd too fast makes him never leave the first island. This may cause your party to get confused and end up in lava.

Explosive Conflict: If you kill the walker in 2 attacks instead of 3, you have to fight like Kephess, kephess, kephess, and pulsar droids all at the same time. It's all bugged up.

Toth and Zorn phases can overlap if your dps is too good. Actually I think they fixed that one. But you used to be able to make them Jump mid-yellow-circle-phase and it messed things up.

I don't recall playing another game where doing too much damage broke the encounter myself.
Member of Bane Fleet

grkguru's Avatar


grkguru
01.07.2013 , 09:22 AM | #10
Yeah, and this isn't just a problem only a few guilds are encountering per server. I've been in PUGs on HM EC and TFB and have had this happen even without ever going with them before. And honestly, the endgame should get a high priority because that's where everyone will end up when the eventuality of their leveling is over. Any fight where you have to stop dps for a second because you're dealing too much damage is poorly constructed.

And to the person who said the tanks need to learn better aggro rotations obviously hasn't played this game much. If you have a very geared sentinel, their Master Strike ability will rip aggro all the time, even from an absurdly geared tank. The game isn't quite balanced yet on certain classes, so aggro is always a problem. I've had guard put on me before and still ripped aggro on certain phases of fights. It's only a problem 2% of the time, but still annoying nonetheless.