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Healing as commando in PVP doesnt seem as fun as healing with scoundrel or sage

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Healing as commando in PVP doesnt seem as fun as healing with scoundrel or sage

klham's Avatar


klham
01.13.2013 , 03:40 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Aramyth View Post
The only thing my commando healer needs is the ability to put Taurma Probe on more than 1 person. I would think up to 4 people would be good. Yourself and 3 others.
Really? The benefits of Trauma Probe are negligible, especially when mdps is criting for 5-6K dmg. I'm skeptical that it contributes anything meaningful to survivability in PvP. I've watched my health bar when using the talented Hammer Shot proc to Trauma Probe to self-heal on the move, and it's barely noticeable. Certainly not worth the talent points, and definitely not a substitute for a real mobile self-heal.

I've just finished leveling an Op to 50. Even in recruit gear the utility my Op brings to the table in 50 PvP is miles ahead of my now-shelved fully-geared Commando. There are so many examples where my Op was able to be a game-changer despite having scarcely 14K hp. I can even solo-guard a node, which my geared Commando can't do reliably. PvP'ing as Commando in any spec is just painful. The only time it's remotely enjoyable is when the other team ignores you or when your own teammates constantly peel for you. And open world PvP is punishment every time, but totally fun on my Op. The difference is like night and day.

Until Commando/Merc is fixed players should get an advisory the first time they visit their Advanced Class Trainer that the Commando/Merc option is a PvE-only AC. The difference between Commando/Merc and ever other AC is the only real structural class imbalance in my opinion - everything else is just stat-adjustment by comparison. The only disparity that comes close is Sorc/Sages, but force speed + the bubble + more forgiving resource management still puts Sorc/Sages in any spec miles ahead of Commando/Mercs in PvP.

gabusan's Avatar


gabusan
01.13.2013 , 08:27 PM | #12
It is not that I want commandos to be balanced and competitive in healing. That would be far too much to ask. I just wish they had some kind of powerful mechanic like the other classes have. Something that makes them fun, and by fun I mean powerful in the right situation. Being able to put heals over time on everyone, like scoundrels do, is highly powerful if you have a big groups of allies around you. Being able to bubble everyone is also powerful, specially if it can stun people that breaks the bubble on close combat. But what incentive is there to play commando healer? Area heals on the run? That is it? Good luck at people that actually needs the heal staying together. Besides, dont scoundrels do basically the same with their top skill?

As weak as trauma probe is, being able to put it on many people would at least add up to something like the heals over time of the scoudrel.

schooch's Avatar


schooch
01.13.2013 , 10:18 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by gabusan View Post
I just wish they had some kind of powerful mechanic like the other classes have. Something that makes them fun, and by fun I mean powerful in the right situation.

I always think it is fun when their top DPS can't kill you. It is fun to see them try and try and try, then just move on to somebody else cause they cant kill you.
Markoss-Commando medic

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
01.13.2013 , 11:19 PM | #14
i think one thing commandos do that others don't is the inc healing buff from kolto residue
it's a good way that commandos support other healers


i just wish it were fleshed out a lot more.

like if kolto residue hit all targets (or up to 8) within the AOE instead of just the 4 that are healed.

maybe if armor screen also gave the target a +3 or 5% bonus to inc healing and/or if trauma probe did the same



although i think, as a separate suggestion, to help benefit commando's role of a good single-target healer, i think a +5 or 10% bonus to hammershot healing to the recipient of of trauma probe would be nice as an alternative to the inc healing bonus. it could even be tied to frontline medic and would then provide separate intended benefits for PVP and PVE (and solo play)

Keypek's Avatar


Keypek
01.14.2013 , 11:41 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Endek View Post
Lol... yeah, every time I light up the park with that rather spectacular green come to my party laser beam, I can't help but think that I have just sent out a huge invite!
.
Yeah I asked for this over a year ago lol....

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=66166

Don't think BW cares. It makes me second guess using it in pvp because of it's ability to compeltely give away where you are. Especially if you are using los around a pillar or something. Can cast heals to keep people up than you are desperate to put out some heals without using ammo and suddenly you got a hoard of dps coming around the corner at you after you turn your green spot light on. Hate it.

Not sure why they can't just tone it down. Like the med scan the scoundrels have... it has an effect you can see but it is not so freakin pronounced lol.

Anyway, to the OP. I have played all three now as healers and you are right. There is just something missing from the Commando. It feels like it is very close. The uninteruptable aspect is nice but gimmicky and need full resolve to have it be truly awesome. The instant heal is sweet but on a huge CD. Kolto bomb I actually love as it's a nice way to top off a group and the snare is pretty effective also. Personally if they killed the green beam of death and reduced bacta infusion to 15 seconds.... maybe make it cost 1 ammo and have it on a 10-12 sec CD would be ok with me. And yes, have the trauma probe be applicable to 4 people and get rid of the self heal aspect with hammer shot would be good with me.

Overall, I like Commando healing but it does seem to just slightly lack oompf compared to sage and scoundrel.
K'mpek/Keypek or some variation
Vanguard dps for nim progression. 55s=1 of everything.
Undercon__ ICE Breaker>Corellian Run>The Shadowlands

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
01.16.2013 , 08:45 AM | #16
You make some good points and Commandos in PVP are EXTREMELY frustrating to play and they need some love. However there are some things that we CAN do well: Diversions, delays, and bait.

I can't tell you how many times I have run into or near a pack of imps..start throwing around GBD (green beam of death) and then poping shield and stims.. Then running away while using kolto bombs and bacta infusion. Almost every time 3-4 imps will drop what they are doing and chase you. Even with that many you can survive for a little bit (if you know what you are doing) giving your team some much needed time to cap a node or finish off their healers. Imps can't resist and often you can bait them away.

Using shield, stims, adrenalin rush, kolto bombs, and self heal... We have the potential to survive longer than any other healer under duress. However if we are healing ourselves, we are not healing the team... But it also means that the imps are not attacking our team mates when they are swarming us. If you are helping to guard a node you can delay quite well with the skills we have untill help arrives. I don't put up a lot of big numbers on the board but I have learned to become better at surviving attacks and delaying death so as to draw off, delay, and bait imps. Along with healig my goal is always to tie up as many imps as I can as long as I can. While it isn't always fun, and certainly not glamorous... It can still help your team win.

Hutt ball- follow the ball carrier with GBD... Either you will help keep them alive or imps will attack you instead.
Voidstar- lure imps near pits away from the bombs and sometimes you can freeze them and then knock them off
Alderman & Danova- play off nodes just a bit if attacking and lure imps out away. When defending stay moble with KB and BI heals. Use shield, stims, addenalin rush, CCs, knockback, and KB slow effect to delay untill help arrives.
Hyper gate- more of the same.

Bottom line it YES it is a very difficult class and procs nerd rages frequently, but it is not useless and we just need to be creative with the skills that we do have, which are more useful than you might initially think.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
BeÓrs - Scoundrel Healer
<The Jedi of Camelot>JawaSpanker Legacy ~ POT5 Server

SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
01.16.2013 , 01:56 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsFan View Post
You make some good points and Commandos in PVP are EXTREMELY frustrating to play and they need some love. However there are some things that we CAN do well: Diversions, delays, and bait.

I can't tell you how many times I have run into or near a pack of imps..start throwing around GBD (green beam of death) and then poping shield and stims.. Then running away while using kolto bombs and bacta infusion. Almost every time 3-4 imps will drop what they are doing and chase you. Even with that many you can survive for a little bit (if you know what you are doing) giving your team some much needed time to cap a node or finish off their healers. Imps can't resist and often you can bait them away.

Using shield, stims, adrenalin rush, kolto bombs, and self heal... We have the potential to survive longer than any other healer under duress. However if we are healing ourselves, we are not healing the team... But it also means that the imps are not attacking our team mates when they are swarming us. If you are helping to guard a node you can delay quite well with the skills we have untill help arrives. I don't put up a lot of big numbers on the board but I have learned to become better at surviving attacks and delaying death so as to draw off, delay, and bait imps. Along with healig my goal is always to tie up as many imps as I can as long as I can. While it isn't always fun, and certainly not glamorous... It can still help your team win.

Hutt ball- follow the ball carrier with GBD... Either you will help keep them alive or imps will attack you instead.
Voidstar- lure imps near pits away from the bombs and sometimes you can freeze them and then knock them off
Alderman & Danova- play off nodes just a bit if attacking and lure imps out away. When defending stay moble with KB and BI heals. Use shield, stims, addenalin rush, CCs, knockback, and KB slow effect to delay untill help arrives.
Hyper gate- more of the same.

Bottom line it YES it is a very difficult class and procs nerd rages frequently, but it is not useless and we just need to be creative with the skills that we do have, which are more useful than you might initially think.
Quite true, and this is pretty much how I feel now that I've played the class for a year. You will never do the numbers of the others because all your healing is raw; that is, you have almost no inflation on your numbers. The Sage's bubbles and the Smuggler's rolling HoTs all help them generate big numbers. The number you see at the end of a match for Commando is pretty much point-for-point how much they did individually. And I've seen Commandos do millions. I've done mil-matches. The HPS is usually low because we don't have that inflation. But it's not as though the class is obsolete.

It could use some help, though. I am admittedly growing tired of waiting to see if Bioware has actually taken it to heart or has simply been shrugging these conversations off. My subscription says I believe the first, but as we close on a year without any meaningful changes to the class on the live servers, the cynical part of me is getting pretty hard to ignore.
Aux "Spaniard" Wargarde (Rank 2400+ Combat Medic) | Reighner the Relentless (Conqueror Bodyguard)
The Generalissimo Legacy
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TimoniPumba's Avatar


TimoniPumba
01.16.2013 , 02:56 PM | #18
Obviously commando have lack of love from BW, because it made it as a PVE class.
When we talk about PVP, there are 2 kinds of PVP - normal wz and ranked wz.
On normal ones its possible to make a good healing. Of course u are often a desired target, u may be interrupted, being focused, but u can do good heal. Before 1.2 I heard that some commandos did 1 mil healing, since then - not.
For example, this is my peronal record http://i.imgur.com/fvuy4.jpg
But it was incredibly hard to achieve. If I were scound or sage, this number would be higher.

If we talk about ranked wz, commando has nothing to do there. At all. U get focused at once, all ur casts are unterrupted, commando cant escape from combat. In other words, u feel all the shortcomings of this class.
Top pvp guilds will never take commando healer to rwz, because it cant compete with scoundrel and sage.

Revitalizing commando healing will require significant changes in the whole mechanics. Putting trauma probe on several people is not enough, commando need more survivability, possibility to escape combat, need features taken since 1.2 etc.
I really hope that one day this class will be revitalized and will be adopted to pvp, and I hope that this day will come soon.

schooch's Avatar


schooch
01.16.2013 , 05:24 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by TimoniPumba View Post
If we talk about ranked wz, commando has nothing to do there. At all. U get focused at once, all ur casts are unterrupted, commando cant escape from combat. In other words, u feel all the shortcomings of this class.
Top pvp guilds will never take commando healer to rwz, because it cant compete with scoundrel and sage.

Revitalizing commando healing will require significant changes in the whole mechanics. Putting trauma probe on several people is not enough, commando need more survivability, possibility to escape combat, need features taken since 1.2 etc.
Well I agree CM need some love (not a whole new re-working but a couple minor changes.) CM's can do RWZ, It requires more skill than the other classes to do so, but CM can do well in RWZ.
Markoss-Commando medic

SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
01.16.2013 , 06:53 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by TimoniPumba View Post
Obviously commando have lack of love from BW, because it made it as a PVE class.
When we talk about PVP, there are 2 kinds of PVP - normal wz and ranked wz.
On normal ones its possible to make a good healing. Of course u are often a desired target, u may be interrupted, being focused, but u can do good heal. Before 1.2 I heard that some commandos did 1 mil healing, since then - not.
For example, this is my peronal record http://i.imgur.com/fvuy4.jpg
But it was incredibly hard to achieve. If I were scound or sage, this number would be higher.
While I agree its easier to reach big numbers on Sage and Scoundrel (because of inflation), it's not impossible. Like this 1.1mil match I got in ranked a month ago which is my personal best. I've had a few others right around the one-mil mark, but there is also probably truth in arguing that million+ matches occur more frequently on Sage/Scoundrel than Commando.

Quote:
If we talk about ranked wz, commando has nothing to do there. At all. U get focused at once, all ur casts are unterrupted, commando cant escape from combat. In other words, u feel all the shortcomings of this class.
Top pvp guilds will never take commando healer to rwz, because it cant compete with scoundrel and sage.

Revitalizing commando healing will require significant changes in the whole mechanics. Putting trauma probe on several people is not enough, commando need more survivability, possibility to escape combat, need features taken since 1.2 etc.
I really hope that one day this class will be revitalized and will be adopted to pvp, and I hope that this day will come soon.
DPS Commandos 100% suffer from everything you've explained. Healers are also vulnerable to much the same things, but in ranked I'd sure hope that your team makes and effort to help you. And if your guild or friends won't take a Combat Medic into ranked, then maybe your circle of friends aren't all that like-minded after all.

For 1.7 and beyond, this is what I hope for Commando (and I don't see it as an overhaul):

- Cut the cooldown on Tech Override by at least a minute, possibly down to only 20 or 30 seconds.
- Do something with Adrenaline Rush. Give it a speed buff or something which justifies its three minute cooldown.
- Full Auto should either be immune to interrupts like Master Strike or it should be made immune through specialization (Curtain of Fire is a very good candidate).
- Make it so the house of cards that is a Gunnery Commando doesn't fall down every time Grav Round gets interrupted. Give them alternative (but slower) means of building their procs so they can take interruptions in stride without having their entire tree cave in on them.
- Review the AC's control, especially when keeping melees at range (roots, leap immunity). Failing at this, give the class an escape mechanic.
- Give the class something that makes them an asset to the team. A team-wide buff would be great (ie. immunity to leaps for teammates in a moderate radius for 10 seconds).
- For Combat Medic relax some of the ammo nerfs in 1.2. Some, not all. Trauma Probe could use some value too, right now it is too expensive for its worth. And if the class is intended to be the single-target specialist, make sure it does it better than anyone else or has some interesting benefits. Failing that, make group healing easier.
Aux "Spaniard" Wargarde (Rank 2400+ Combat Medic) | Reighner the Relentless (Conqueror Bodyguard)
The Generalissimo Legacy
<Uncensored>