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Kaggath Heats: Darth Revan vs Skere Kaan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats: Darth Revan vs Skere Kaan

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.30.2012 , 04:02 PM | #1
“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”


Welcome to the third heat of the ‘Kaggath Tournament’. A competition pitting the power bases of the iconic Star Wars characters seen in the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ against each other in an epic tournament-style extravaganza.

The last battle, General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate, was a Separatist victory. Mandalore fought like a true Mandalorian, and much glory was claimed, but ultimately he was defeated by the power of Grievous’ overwhelming droid armies and the General himself. But onto round three.

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules again:

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers apart from those listed below. (Concerning the Brotherhood of Darkness however, no members are prominent enough to be excluded)
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No superweapons, e.g. Star Forge, Force bomb.
  • Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.

Permitted Allies:

Darth Revan: Darth Malak

Skere Kaan: Lord Bane (50% of his full power)

So, the combatants: Darth Revan was one of the most feared and most powerful Dark Lords in galactic history. He was exceptionally strong in the Force and a highly skilled swordsman, as well as a brilliant strategist and tactician. Lord Kaan was a charismatic leader, skilled strategist and powerful warrior. He excelled in the use of mind tricks, able to influence even the most strongest of beings, and proficient in battle meditation.

As a Sith Lord Revan commanded a powerful empire of Star Forged battlecruisers and fanatically loyal troopers, dark Jedi and Sith assassins. While Kaan was the de facto leader of the Brotherhood of Darkness, a dark perversion of the Jedi Order with an army of over twenty thousand Sith warriors, assassins and spies, as well as an armada of soldiers and ships, at his disposal. Both Sith Lords possess immense armies of dark side power, but who will prove the stronger? Who will win?

Let the Kaggath begin!

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.30.2012 , 04:04 PM | #2
I know this is a hot topic (it has Revan in it :P) But lets try to refrain from starting a flame war!

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.30.2012 , 04:20 PM | #3
Hmm, now this is a bit more even matchup.

So for the record, we're using Darth Revan here right? (as opposed to Reborn or Jedi General)

I'd say Kaan might pull this out in my opinion. While I think Revan might have the superior fleet, Kaan seems to have better ground troops. Revan's 'sith' are a collection of dark jedi and undertrained force users. Meanwhile Kaan has an force of actual Sith warriors and lords as well as better 'Special Forces' units. I think Kaan's slight edge in force users and shock troopers will tip the powerbase vs powerbase fight in his favor.

In a 1 on 1 fight (probably a 2v2 with both bringing their allies) Revan and Malak will have a slight advantage (due to them having fought together for a while) with teamwork. If one of them falls, they both loose even if Bane dies. Purely 1v1 Kaan is a better duelist imo.

Edit: in the interest of sparking a pro Revan argument from someone else (not that fanboys will need it). Revan's charisma and intelligence might be enough to sway a few Sith of Kaan's to join his side (even with Kaan's manipulation and persuasion) thereby completely flipping the powerbase fight. I'd also be interested in what people think of a 1v1 between Bane (50%) and Malak and who would win.

Edit 2: I agree with the results of the last match. I argued for MtU as best I could but yeah... a lot of times quantity>quality. (ie, WW2 Germany vs. Russia, or Huns vs. Rome ect...)
"We're more than just a people or an army, aruetii. We're a culture. We're an idea. And you can't kill ideas—but we can certainly kill you."

Mandalore the Destroyer

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.30.2012 , 05:21 PM | #4
Quote:
Huns vs. Rome
alow me to nitpick a bit, just an off topic correction. The Huns didnt beat the Romans t they were actualy defeated military in many ocasions and they were stoped at the battle of Chalons. If you meant the barbarian invasions well it was actualy a very long process, and it wasnt at the same time, and was more of a cultural take over then actualy military conquest. Quite Complex, just that the analogy doesnt make much sense.

Carry on

About the topic, i have no clue i only know Revan, dont know much about lord kaan.
But if we are talking about numbers wouldnt revan having the advantage here? with his infinte army? just like Grivieus in that sense. Only his army was much better then the one Grivieus had.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.30.2012 , 05:44 PM | #5
Just wanted to pause for a minute.

20,000 Sith.
Battle Meditation.

Woah.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.30.2012 , 05:47 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
alow me to nitpick a bit, just an off topic correction. The Huns didnt beat the Romans though they were actualy defeated military in many ocasions and they were stoped at the battle of Chalons. If you meant the barbarian invasions well it was actualy a very long process, and it wasnt at the same time, and was more of a cultural take over then actualy military conquest. Complex, just that the analogy doesnt make much sense.

Carry on

About the topic, i have no clue i only know Revan, dont know much about lord kaan.
But if we are talking about numbers wouldnt revan having the advantage here? with his infinte army? just like Grivieus in that sense. Only his army was much better then the one Grivieus had.
This is Darth Revan just to clarify. You might wanna give Kaan a look up on Wookieepedia (the links are in the OP) and the Brotherhood of Darkness. Basically he amassed a sizeable enough force to challenge a relatively sturdy Republic. I'd say his forces are a little smaller than that of Revans, but he has a lot more Sith.

Ach, small problem. I just realised that removing the Star Forge removes Revan's source of industry. But that would be unfair on Kaan's part. So lets just say Revan has all the shipyards he conquered during the Jedi Civil War (which was a fair amount as he kept industry intact) and that they can produce the same ships, weapons, droids etc as the Star Forge could as of the same quality. Not infinitely though.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
12.30.2012 , 05:50 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Just wanted to pause for a minute.

20,000 Sith.
Battle Meditation.

Woah.
20,000 sith its nothing in comparisson to an infinite army, with many force users included.
And if i recall battle meditation, isnt a sure win, or rather it wouldnt affect all kind of troops, and certainly not droids. A loop whole imo that is often oversighted.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.30.2012 , 05:51 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post
alow me to nitpick a bit, just an off topic correction. The Huns didnt beat the Romans though they were actualy defeated military in many ocasions and they were stoped at the battle of Chalons. If you meant the barbarian invasions well it was actualy a very long process, and it wasnt at the same time, and was more of a cultural take over then actualy military conquest. Complex, just that the analogy doesnt make much sense.

Carry on

About the topic, i have no clue i only know Revan, dont know much about lord kaan.
But if we are talking about numbers wouldnt revan having the advantage here? with his infinte army? just like Grivieus in that sense. Only his army was much better then the one Grivieus had.
You are correct on the Huns vs Rome thing, I was more referring to the Hun's successes in Gaul where their sheer numbers overwhelmed superior Roman technology and fortifications until Attila began playing politics. And another history buff correcting me on that is AWESOME to see, keep it up.

Back on topic, Revan effectively had the resources of a war torn Republic economy. Aside from his standing fleet, we have to subtract the Starforge, making his production (while still somewhat superior to Kaan's) more even. I agree if this fight stretched a few years Revan would be in a position to out produce Kaan. Plus, Revan used actually beings, Grievous had cheap machines that required no training, thus more easily mass produced. It's similar, but the numbers aren't nearly as in favor of Revan as they where for Grievous. The tradeoff is Revan's stuff and men where of superior quality.

Edit: wait a minute, lets remember the Star Forge was for Ships primarily. Revan had conquered much of the Republic. He had their industry (I'm looking at you Kuat and Sullust) which was still a bit more than Kaan's. I think tossing the Star forge is fair if you lose the Force Bomb.
"We're more than just a people or an army, aruetii. We're a culture. We're an idea. And you can't kill ideas—but we can certainly kill you."

Mandalore the Destroyer

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.30.2012 , 05:55 PM | #9
Mandalore, I knew you would lose- figured it from the start, but I figured I'd support you. Oh well, good debate everyone

Now to this fight. I want to say Reven, but Kaan is powerful. I'll do more research and post later. Let the debate begin!!!
(I've always wanted to say that)
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
12.30.2012 , 06:10 PM | #10
Does Revan have to Star Forge? If yes, he wins.

If not, Kaan is a powerful leader, and with Bane at his side it would be a victory for the Brotherhood of Darkness. Keep in mind that Bane at half-power is still pretty bad***, considering that him at full-power is just godlike (after all, Bane was considered the Sith'ari)

Are the orbalisks attached to Bane? If not, Kaan would still win. If yes, Kaan would dominate.
Lord Ravvok
Annihilation Marauder
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