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Anger and fear.


SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.17.2013 , 03:26 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills
With the SI's background. I disagree. You were a slave, forced into being a Sith, ridiculed for being an alien (at least if you are an alien) .

the cult you get seems useful, you get LS points for not giving them up and taking what you want, and DS points for making the deal. Sooo...why go DS on that one?

Why wouldn't you go against the established order? They are after all, at some level, responsible for how you have been/currently are treated.

Then to make matters worse you get on a Dark Counsil members bad side, because you did what other Sith do, but not really even though he doesnt want to see, only it's bad because you're an ex-slave/alien.

Not to mention, saving some lives could be beneficial to you. So, know when to kill em know when to spare them.

And on my SW so far, I've had DS options that were, "Yeah. Kill for killing's sake" imo. Not all, but some.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 03:44 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
With the SI's background. I disagree. You were a slave, forced into being a Sith, ridiculed for being an alien (at least if you are an alien) .

the cult you get seems useful, you get LS points for not giving them up and taking what you want, and DS points for making the deal. Sooo...why go DS on that one?

Why wouldn't you go against the established order? They are after all, at some level, responsible for how you have been/currently are treated.

Then to make matters worse you get on a Dark Counsil members bad side, because you did what other Sith do, but not really even though he doesnt want to see, only it's bad because you're an ex-slave/alien.

Not to mention, saving some lives could be beneficial to you. So, know when to kill em know when to spare them.

And on my SW so far, I've had DS options that were, "Yeah. Kill for killing's sake" imo. Not all, but some.
thats what being Sith about, whenether slave or not, your chains can be broken if you want to and you can become great whatever your past was. hell, it gives even a better position to strike all those under you, after all you were nothing and became Sith and the others? they are still nothing, a dust on your boots, unable to reach for their freedom and power, stomping them shouldnt be a problem, you had the same chances but you won. compassion would be terrible, it would mean to be chained into slave morality while being a Lord

and about cult, I dont remember it well, but from what I remember, dark side options led to greater power, and in the end you got much more stronger allies then those pathetic humans or paladius, from what I remember going dark side was totally beneficial

I dont remember even one on SW that was just for the sake of killing, you killed those who deserved it whenether because of their ill behaviour or other way - and no doubt SW got a smile from that, so no pointless at all.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.17.2013 , 03:48 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
only if you think that there is a will of the force, dark side unlike light is not a dictator ( well jedi are slaves of their own limits), it thrives in free will of those who takes what they want by any means they want, it is not force that makes them kill, but they kill with a help of force. but I guess you like idea of the living force and its will.
and Traya was pretty corrupted, her face didnt became so unnaturaly pale just because of old age and warm kisses with Nihilus. Vectivus on the other hand, he seems to be much more of a disturbed force user who is rather a material for a little bit lost jedi than a Sith. if anyone is trully focused then it is Vitiate ( who never shown emotions ) then Scourge and Sith Warrior. with Vitiate beinng the most wise and powerful.
I am of the opinion that the Force has a will, Celestials, the Ones, the Chosen One etc. all point to this being the case.

However ultimately its irrelevant. Its not so much the Force telling them what to do, but the power promised by the dark side compelling them to desire more and more power for its own sake, in a sense they become 'addicted' to the dark side. Take the Sith of the Order of the Sith Lords. Why were they so hell bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi? What personal grievances did they hold against them? None. Heck many of the Sith in the Order where just random force sensitives indoctrinated into Sith teachings, then all of a sudden, with no previous contempt for the Republic or the Jedi, or any previous desire to establish authoritarian rule, they attempt to do just that. Why? Because the Republic and the Jedi stand in their way, they block the path to power. Why do the Sith wan't power? Good question, they just do. They have no real goals, they just want more and more power. Traya and Vectivus where they only Sith who broke away from this, they had their own goals, goals uninfluenced by the dark side.

Vectivus was Sith, he used the dark side just as any other Sith did. He was merely not obsessed with conquering the galaxy for no apparent reason, seems the opposite of disturbed to me. And yes, Traya was physically corrupted by the dark side. But that is a result of her 'indoctrination' if you like, to the dark side by the Sith assassins of Malachor V. Who overwhelmed her with Malachor's dark energies. Her corrupted appearance was the result, however after that she made her own path. And rose above her emotions. Vitiate is something of an enigma, he displays the qualities of one who has focused their power, he is cunning and manipulative. And yet he also seems to have become utterly consumed by the dark side, he is so hell bent on achieving absolute power that he is prepared to destroy the entire universe to stop himself from losing it. I'd say he's an entirely different class altogether, 'insane' comes to mind.

In many ways the OP is right, emotions are for the weak. They are the quick path to power, only through meditation and concentration can you overcome your emotions and wield the dark side to its full potential.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 04:08 PM | #64
do they really need to hold a grudge to raid them? sheer joy of combat isnt enough ? exhilirating chaos at work and undoing of those who opposed them ? both, Jedi and Sith are cultists, both indoctrinate, it is not like a Jedi who leaves academy is not bend on defeating Sith. but isnt in fact power itself the greatest goal for an individual or group? to do whatever you want, you dont need government or anything else, you simply enjoy your moments in whatever way you want, you are not bend on serving but living the life you want, how long you want.
and I think this is the best presented by this probably most known quote about Emperor:
"You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

she was simply corrupted, body and mind just her ways were different, most probably because she lacked power to achiev other goals.

most Sith meditate, it is not uncommon practise for them
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.17.2013 , 04:27 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
do they really need to hold a grudge to raid them? sheer joy of combat isnt enough ? exhilirating chaos at work and undoing of those who opposed them ? both, Jedi and Sith are cultists, both indoctrinate, it is not like a Jedi who leaves academy is not bend on defeating Sith. but isnt in fact power itself the greatest goal for an individual or group? to do whatever you want, you dont need government or anything else, you simply enjoy your moments in whatever way you want, you are not bend on serving but living the life you want, how long you want.
and I think this is the best presented by this probably most known quote about Emperor:
"You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

she was simply corrupted, body and mind just her ways were different, most probably because she lacked power to achiev other goals.

most Sith meditate, it is not uncommon practise for them
Exactly, Sith go on blind rampages with no real goals. They destroy because they can. To what end? They don't care. Power itself is rarely the goal of a group or an individual, power is a tool to achieve other things e.g. government, freedom, wealth, pleasure, peace etc. The Jedi don't want power, they only want peace. Most Sith just want power for powers sake. This is where they fail because if they continue to pursue power with no real goals or aims, the power will consume them, their quest will eventual end and they will be destroyed. The Emperor was paranoid, and his quest for power drove him to insanity. The quote shows he had become trapped in a perpetual cycle of a never ending quest for power which could only end one way: with his inevitable destruction.

And yes, Sith meditate. But they rely on emotions to achieve immediate power. Sith sorcery and meditation are just steps towards achieving true power, in ways other than grasping blindly for it.

And about Traya, other goals? She was the only Sith whoever had a goal that didn't involve claiming power for powers sake.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.17.2013 , 04:40 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I am of the opinion that the Force has a will, Celestials, the Ones, the Chosen One etc. all point to this being the case.

However ultimately its irrelevant. Its not so much the Force telling them what to do, but the power promised by the dark side compelling them to desire more and more power for its own sake, in a sense they become 'addicted' to the dark side. Take the Sith of the Order of the Sith Lords. Why were they so hell bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi? What personal grievances did they hold against them? None. Heck many of the Sith in the Order where just random force sensitives indoctrinated into Sith teachings, then all of a sudden, with no previous contempt for the Republic or the Jedi, or any previous desire to establish authoritarian rule, they attempt to do just that. Why? Because the Republic and the Jedi stand in their way, they block the path to power. Why do the Sith wan't power? Good question, they just do. They have no real goals, they just want more and more power. Traya and Vectivus where they only Sith who broke away from this, they had their own goals, goals uninfluenced by the dark side.

Vectivus was Sith, he used the dark side just as any other Sith did. He was merely not obsessed with conquering the galaxy for no apparent reason, seems the opposite of disturbed to me. And yes, Traya was physically corrupted by the dark side. But that is a result of her 'indoctrination' if you like, to the dark side by the Sith assassins of Malachor V. Who overwhelmed her with Malachor's dark energies. Her corrupted appearance was the result, however after that she made her own path. And rose above her emotions. Vitiate is something of an enigma, he displays the qualities of one who has focused their power, he is cunning and manipulative. And yet he also seems to have become utterly consumed by the dark side, he is so hell bent on achieving absolute power that he is prepared to destroy the entire universe to stop himself from losing it. I'd say he's an entirely different class altogether, 'insane' comes to mind.

In many ways the OP is right, emotions are for the weak. They are the quick path to power, only through meditation and concentration can you overcome your emotions and wield the dark side to its full potential.
I always got the impression it was (from a film stand point) that giving into one's emotions was giving into the dark side in so much as it was the road of easiest travel. Easier to obtain the power you want by going DS than obtaining the power you want and being LS.

One says more training, the other says, don't have time, need it all now!

They say give into your emotions, your passion, and love for others can be both of those.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.17.2013 , 04:45 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Exactly, Sith go on blind rampages with no real goals. They destroy because they can. To what end? They don't care. Power itself is rarely the goal of a group or an individual, power is a tool to achieve other things e.g. government, freedom, wealth, pleasure, peace etc. The Jedi don't want power, they only want peace. Most Sith just want power for powers sake. This is where they fail because if they continue to pursue power with no real goals or aims, the power will consume them, their quest will eventual end and they will be destroyed. The Emperor was paranoid, and his quest for power drove him to insanity. The quote shows he had become trapped in a perpetual cycle of a never ending quest for power which could only end one way: with his inevitable destruction.

And yes, Sith meditate. But they rely on emotions to achieve immediate power. Sith sorcery and meditation are just steps towards achieving true power, in ways other than grasping blindly for it.

And about Traya, other goals? She was the only Sith whoever had a goal that didn't involve claiming power for powers sake.
there are no such things like "real goals", every goal is worth the same. To experience everything you want, first you require unqustioned power. In the SW vast galaxy those who want everything are obliged to go after it. Peace is a lie, a key to progress was always in passion, chaos in form of war or any other form that pumped need of advancement, Sith enjoy their infinite combat voyages, it is their purpose, to test themselves.No one can become consumed by power, it is just a quote people like to use when their relatives achiev something, do dirty things and alienate themselve. Sith are ready do destroy and be destroyed, they dont ask for mercy nor give it. They are much more fulfilled in their lives than jedi who whole their lives supress emotions and are at conflict with themselves just because code says so.

hes far from paranoid, he was even calm when JK caused some troubles. he doesnt care for little flies.
that quote says that he wants to live however he want to, unrestricted by laws of a mere mortals. He is definately not insane, hes simply intelligent beyond measure of those who sorrounds him. after all, he lived for 36k years after TOR, so he will Survive this battle and any that will become - and what I can speculate about his death is that he chose it for himself after he got bored

and Traya wasnt exactly the most calm person from what I remember
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Strombrad's Avatar


Strombrad
01.18.2013 , 03:22 AM | #68
If you're looking for examples of how fear or anger in real life would help some one.

You can't use a football game as an example of "anger" we're talking about Hate, Rage, Seething and Loathing the want for something to end as slowly and painfully as possible, This can insight blood lusts which can cause people to sort of black out and forget large swaths of what occurred, this would be the caveat of what i'd imagine the Jedi strive for which is "Wu Wei." Acting without acting, Performing such a fluid and precise motion that you feel as though you didn't perform it your self. This is something real people do all the time, it's most common in sports and you say it's harder to achieve when you're angry because when you're angry you're distracted. When you hate, you have only one thing on your mind.

People who have had boulders fall on them find miraculous strength because they are afraid of death, this is the most primal, instinctual, basic of emotions. The unadulterated want to live. Fear is taught to Sith Acolytes because they are constantly shadowed by a master who could take their life at any minute. They live in a culture where murder, power grabs, and mutiny is common place. Paranoia is what controls people, but when your life is in danger and you are unsure if you will live moment to moment the amount of stress that would be flooding your system is unimaginable. When a being is scared for its life, it will lash out and sacrifice part of it self to continue living in most cases.

The Sith you idolize in the movies are fat cats where the only thing they have nothing to fear, and remember it all starts with fear.
Some of us are beyond Redemption

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.18.2013 , 04:44 AM | #69
I just watched a Darth
Spoiler
kill off three Imperial Officers, after half the crew was killed, because they were alive when the Captain had died.

If that's not stupidity rage, what is it?

And that's why my SI ended up mostly LS. She thought ahead. Was she always right? No. But part of that was just because the game won't let you be "Oh hey! Look! choices! They're all the same. They all suck. But you get a choice in how the obvious bad choice will play out!"

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.18.2013 , 05:50 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I just watched a Darth
Spoiler
kill off three Imperial Officers, after half the crew was killed, because they were alive when the Captain had died.

If that's not stupidity rage, what is it?

And that's why my SI ended up mostly LS. She thought ahead. Was she always right? No. But part of that was just because the game won't let you be "Oh hey! Look! choices! They're all the same. They all suck. But you get a choice in how the obvious bad choice will play out!"
he issued collective responsibility - also, it says bad about officers to be alive when captain is dead, they were obliged to resist and fight but they prioritized their own survival. I would say that he was merciful on them, he should torture them for failure.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.