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Sage, the paper dog king of all mmo's!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Sage, the paper dog king of all mmo's!

nokizaru's Avatar


nokizaru
01.02.2013 , 08:29 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
First you questioning credibility about an RL issue, you showing that you pro in this issue from the reason, that you spend 10 years to study it. If you want, send me PM's and we can discuss it, but I don't think that you are interested on real opinions connected to this phrase, you just wanted to troll the forum users ( questioning my credibility, and using it like a lobby vs Sage/Sorce, so the thread) + to ventilate your ego. Yes you trolled them, coz if you spend 10 years by different martial arts you should know this phrase well , )
No. You made an erroneous generalisation, and I called you for it. If you don't like the things you say being held up to the limelight, then don't post on forums - it couldn't be any simpler. I don't need to 'ventilate my ego', especially on a SW forum as an anonymous poster. No one knows who I am, and no one cares; so it serves no purpose chasing kudos on here. I have no interest in sending you PM's - it sounds like you're the one with the ego problem if you care what other people on here think.

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Second, you came up with some rubbish explanation, that wants to explain us, that the AC is well balanced and gives hard time for poor knights/warriors in the right hand - what is nonsense and maybe true vs a bad low geared warrior/knight.
A rubbish explanation? At least I can express my thoughts in a clear and lucid manner. You should find a new online translator, because 80% of what you write is sheer gibberish. The Sage/Sorcerer AC still needs tweaks, and I never said otherwise. What I was trying to illustrate was that some of the claims I've read are simply over-the-top. I have two Sages and a Sorc on separate severs, and I simply don't agree that the Sage is in as bad a place as you're making it out to be. If you want to take on smashderps, then don't stand there in a Tele build giving them an easy target.

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So you tried to lobby a bit vs the thread and keep your well deserved smash safe from nerf, but you should try it harder , )
I didn't try anything of the sort. No, you're simply raging against anyone you perceive to have an even remotely different viewpoint...as though we're secret smashderp agents on a quest to derail your thread. My first toon from launch was a Sage, and to this day it continues to be my favourite class.

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I hope you understand that the forum and the class lobby is part of the game and we have to support our class on the forum in every MMO if we realize, that it lacking here and there... And Sage/Sorc needs a huge rebuild to make it balance and viable vs other classes, ACs!
Peace!
And I hope you realise that when you start a thread, it's not going to be a conga-line of 'yes men' who reply. You accept that other people will reply with differing opinions. I don't agree that the Sage/Sorc need a 'huge' rebuild...some minor tweaks here and there (Balance and Tele trees) would be all that's needed.
Stop exploding you cowards!

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
01.02.2013 , 12:14 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by nokizaru View Post
some minor tweaks here and there (Balance and Tele trees) would be all that's needed.
You see BW, another subscriber, who wants some tweaks for Sage/Sorc!

My dear Chubby, you where growled a bit, but in the end you managed to burp it up

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
01.02.2013 , 12:34 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Paelo View Post
While I haven't been training for quite that long, more like a little over three years myself, I've never heard that expression used as a rule of fighting. Typically, yes, fights go to the ground, but that has a lot to do with the fact that most people (especially the ones without training) inevitably end up grappling eachother, even if they start out swinging wild punches.

Try and tackle someone who has been trained to counter it (not hard, given that it's the inevitable feint/followed by grapple) and is willing to use more....brutal means to prevent it, and the only person who'll end up going to the ground is you.



To me this seems a clear indication that you have no idea on how to kite in pvp. Sure, being jumped by a well played Sent/Marra or Guard/Jug will leave you on the back foot, but knowing how to cycle your skills, and being familiar with even the basics of kiting can give you the ability to turn the tables on them. Hybrid spec in particular thanks to the exploding shield and root effect on force wake gives you a lot to play with in terms of gaining distance/cast time.

Granted, there are some things that need to be dealt with in terms of balance (like the current slightly over the top derp sweep damage) but that dosen't change the fact that it is possible still to counter them.
WoW! Another Bruce Lee : p

As I mentioned it in a bunch of threads, low lvl Sage/Sorc can handle pvp, till expertise is not on the table (his only defensive tool is the bubble, what support by willpower, force power and power, so bonus healing, but not healing bonus what comes from expertise. The thread is about "Sage, the paper dog king of all mmo's!" that Sage/Sorc has no viable defense after expertise arrives, by the way, he is lacking in DPS as well : p

So low lvl Sage/Sorc's defense is viable imo (still lacking in dps) but after 50, to keep him alive is a nightmare...

"To me this seems a clear indication that you have no idea on how to kite in pvp"
so here is one of my Sage (this char is viable here coz of low lvl) and how he kite at 5:13 -7:00

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
01.02.2013 , 12:47 PM | #24
If you didn't even use knockback, it sounds like a learn to play issue. If you are gimping yourself by not using your class' full potential, you have nothing to complain about. You have roots, slows, stuns too, use them.

Do sages need a tweak? Maybe. Does smash need a tweak? Maybe. But you will get the best results from tweaking your own playstyle.
Mikal'B, Battlemaster and Fleet Commodore of the Republic.
<Contraband Inc> 10/10 NiM, 4/4 NiM, NMP, 7/12 NiM, HM GF, 4/5 NiM, 2/10 HM
Jedi Covenant

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.02.2013 , 07:46 PM | #25
Sage is my main both PvE and PvP and I LOVE it (Ok I like my Scrapper more but since she isn't 50 yet it doesn't compare). I will not claim that Sage's couldn't use a DPS buff (or rather certain classes could use a debuff) or TTK.

In PvP I have run these:
a) Full Seer and after 1.4 Full Seer with Egress.
- Pre 1.2 this spec was beast, 1.5s Deliverances (and buggy double tapping) and no HP loss with Noble Sacrifice.
- Post 1.2 it took a big hit but I stuck with it and still kept doing good
- 1.4 Brought good things in the change to the knock back, Force Mend and Egress, it improved full Seer plenty but not to pre 1.2 levels but most importantly it brought:

b) Bubble Stun
- This spec is broken no denying that but it has improved Sage's massively, it is almost a perfect counter to losmashers, I have noticed that my overall healing has gone down though but I survive better meaning I get to do damage and play the objectives more.

c) Balance
- Awesome DPS spec, yes it will lose face-to-face to maras, pyros or juggs, but you are a Sage, you are not meant to look into their face. Approach from max range, dot them up, bomb them with FiB, slow their approach with Telekinetic throw, knock them back (or off ledges) snare them, slow them, stun them and own them with a Project as you run away and hide around a corner or circle a pillar.

d) Personal variation on Balance
- Sacrificing resource to burst damage, awesome for 1v1s but rubbish in long battles as you will soon be left with only TT.

And yes I have tried TK in PvP, it was hilarious and I never did it again. The tree has good PvP talents (why hybrid is so good) but the activated attacks just aren't suited for PvP. I have seen very good TK Sages in warzones but they are only good when they are hidden out of sight and left alone.

I have also tried lolsmash and assault, they are very effective but they are also boring requiring very little skill.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

Paelo's Avatar


Paelo
01.02.2013 , 08:11 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
WoW! Another Bruce Lee : p
Never made any claim of the sort, though you're obviously a little upset that you were called out on your absurd generalization


Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
As I mentioned it in a bunch of threads, low lvl Sage/Sorc can handle pvp, till expertise is not on the table (his only defensive tool is the bubble, what support by willpower, force power and power, so bonus healing, but not healing bonus what comes from expertise. The thread is about "Sage, the paper dog king of all mmo's!" that Sage/Sorc has no viable defense after expertise arrives, by the way, he is lacking in DPS as well : p
Were you drunk when you wrote this? I'm still trying to get my head around the almost incoherent babble here, there are english translators online, not that hard to make sure your post is at least somewhat intelligible. In regards to your comments about Sages through the levels (from what I could understand) if anything it's quite the opposite. At low levels you're at a disadvantage due to the lack of skills at your disposal to compensate for the squishy nature of the class. At end game however there are no shortage of tools to help you survive if you use them correctly.


Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
So low lvl Sage/Sorc's defense is viable imo (still lacking in dps) but after 50, to keep him alive is a nightmare...

The solo survivability of a sage is fantastic at 50. If you can kite/use your cc well, you have ample opportunities to fire off heals during the fight. Their dps is fine, again, learn to cycle your skills and look at what build you're running.


Wow. If you were trying to confirm my suspicions about your inability to kite, then congratulations You back peddle and you turn your back/run a number of times. No circle strafing in the entire fight, so I was right. You need to learn to kite. I'll agree the class could use some very minor tweaks, but they are certainly no where near as bad as you are making them out to be.
I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
01.02.2013 , 09:36 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Paelo View Post
Never made any claim of the sort, though you're obviously a little upset that you were called out on your absurd generalization




Were you drunk when you wrote this? I'm still trying to get my head around the almost incoherent babble here, there are english translators online, not that hard to make sure your post is at least somewhat intelligible. In regards to your comments about Sages through the levels (from what I could understand) if anything it's quite the opposite. At low levels you're at a disadvantage due to the lack of skills at your disposal to compensate for the squishy nature of the class. At end game however there are no shortage of tools to help you survive if you use them correctly.





The solo survivability of a sage is fantastic at 50. If you can kite/use your cc well, you have ample opportunities to fire off heals during the fight. Their dps is fine, again, learn to cycle your skills and look at what build you're running.




Wow. If you were trying to confirm my suspicions about your inability to kite, then congratulations You back peddle and you turn your back/run a number of times. No circle strafing in the entire fight, so I was right. You need to learn to kite. I'll agree the class could use some very minor tweaks, but they are certainly no where near as bad as you are making them out to be.
The bubble is the only defense tool for Sage, the bubble's power depends on power, willpower and force power, so it depends on bonus healing how much dmg it can absorb. Expertise gives bonus to healing and it don't improve force armor (the bubble) Thats one of the reason, way Sage goes down so easy after 50. But it won't be a wise fix to improve bubble by expertise, because its already makes indestructible classes immortal.
It would be possible to leave Sage's deference like this, but in this case he should get a huge burst dmg tool table.

Its nonsense, that the most indestructible AC has the greatest burst DMG (jug) till the most glass class absolutely lacking in it.

There are few games, where back peddle is a wrong action in pvp, but not in SWTOR (when you slow your opponent and you should face him to land your spell, what you do? You run away? )
By the way, try to kite better when 99% of your spells are channeling ones....

May I ask what class are you playing?
Can you show us one of your wids, what you made with your Sage/Sorc just to let us learn a bit how to kite. (please don't flee this one, if you don't have, just upload one, its 10 minutes...)

nokizaru's Avatar


nokizaru
01.02.2013 , 09:54 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
"To me this seems a clear indication that you have no idea on how to kite in pvp"
so here is one of my Sage (this char is viable here coz of low lvl) and how he kite at 5:13 -7:00
Circle strafe. Learn how to do it. Simply sprinting in straight lines is not 'kiting' - that's escaping. Well done on the 2 vs 1, but you only confirmed my suspicions that you need to learn to kite. THAT'S why you're having so much trouble with smashderps.
Stop exploding you cowards!

nokizaru's Avatar


nokizaru
01.02.2013 , 10:03 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
There are few games, where back peddle is a wrong action in pvp, but not in SWTOR (when you slow your opponent and you should face him to land your spell, what you do? You run away? )
By the way, try to kite better when 99% of your spells are channeling ones....
No, back-peddling is NEVER advised in PvP. Have a look at Taugrim's vids - he even removes his back peddle option. Slow your opponent, and then move in a wide, exaggerated circle around him. You never expose your back, and he's constantly trying to close the angle. Of course, they'll use force leap, grapple, force speed etc to close the distance, but you have the tools needed to get back into range. It's why Balance or hybrid specs work well. And no, if you run in Balance spec, "99%" of your skills are not channelled.
Stop exploding you cowards!

nokizaru's Avatar


nokizaru
01.02.2013 , 10:07 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by LuciferinDNA View Post
You see BW, another subscriber, who wants some tweaks for Sage/Sorc!
Bioware is well aware of the complaints surrounding the Sage/Sorc class. I'm hoping that the expansion will see improvements made to those classes that need it most - starting with the Commando/Merc.

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My dear Chubby, you where growled a bit, but in the end you managed to burp it up
No, I've said it all along. And I'm not your 'dear', or 'chubby', for that matter.
Stop exploding you cowards!