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Kaggath Series: Skere Kaan vs Naga Sadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Skere Kaan vs Naga Sadow

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.08.2012 , 11:51 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Aurbere is probably the person to answer this one. I expect he can 'rebuild' his illusions again though.
Naga Sadow orchestrated multiple battles simultaneously using his illusions and Battle Meditation. When his apprentice attacked his meditation sphere, he lost concentration, which led to the Republic making a swift counterstrike that utterly crushed Sadow's forces. Take in mind that he was also fighting Ludo Kressh's followers at the same time.

"Here in my Meditation Chamber I can see the galaxy in my mind's eye... I can visualize vast armies, powerful fleets, invincible warriors... and with Sith arts, my imagination can make them real."

In short, Sadow can produce real forces just by imagining them. These illusions are actually capable of doing real damage to enemy troops. Unless Kaan can find Sadow's sphere, he will lose. I consider Naga Sadow something akin to an Infinite Empire, if you catch my drift. He can create a limitless supply of soldiers, fleets, anything.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.08.2012 , 03:40 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Naga Sadow orchestrated multiple battles simultaneously using his illusions and Battle Meditation. When his apprentice attacked his meditation sphere, he lost concentration, which led to the Republic making a swift counterstrike that utterly crushed Sadow's forces. Take in mind that he was also fighting Ludo Kressh's followers at the same time.

"Here in my Meditation Chamber I can see the galaxy in my mind's eye... I can visualize vast armies, powerful fleets, invincible warriors... and with Sith arts, my imagination can make them real."

In short, Sadow can produce real forces just by imagining them. These illusions are actually capable of doing real damage to enemy troops. Unless Kaan can find Sadow's sphere, he will lose. I consider Naga Sadow something akin to an Infinite Empire, if you catch my drift. He can create a limitless supply of soldiers, fleets, anything.
Thanks Aurbere I think that could win this for Sadow...

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.09.2012 , 07:00 PM | #13
I know next to nothing about either of these two, but I do have a question.

How much of an advantage does Battle Meditation give your troops?

Even with Sadow's illusion things, would Kaan's battle meditation enable his troops to win? From what I have seen of Battle Meditation (KOTOR) it is able of aiding small fleets to destroy much larger forces. (See Republic w/ Bastila Shaan vs. Star Forge)

Segastorm's Avatar


Segastorm
12.09.2012 , 08:02 PM | #14
Sadows Illusions > Battle Meditation

Imo, kotor inflated battle meditation a bit. All it really does if inspire and give your allies confidence while reducing your enemies' confidence and morale.

From what I can see, I give my win to Sadow. Kaan's brotherhood would, IMO, eventually lead to a complete strife for power and civil war by some ambitious sith, but Sadow's faction is held together because they believe him to be the rightful ruler to the throne, so it's more stable.

StarSquirrel's Avatar


StarSquirrel
12.09.2012 , 09:35 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Segastorm View Post
Kaan's brotherhood would, IMO, eventually lead to a complete strife for power and civil war by some ambitious sith, but Sadow's faction is held together because they believe him to be the rightful ruler to the throne, so it's more stable.
Well, minus Sadow's apprentice and Ludo Kressh and his followers. Remeber, the apprentice tried to turn Sadow over to the republic while Ludo Kressh attacked a retreating Sadow with a second sith fleet that could have been used instead to fight the Republic or at least allowed for a fighting retreat that kept a larger fleet intact. Sith by nature are traitors and power hungry. The only sith who recognized Sadow as ruler where the traditionalists, the weak, and the sith who sought power working with him instead of Kressh.

I agree with everything you said I just wanted to clarify this.
"Being abandoned to my enemies, abandoned by one for whom I once had considerable affection and respect, was like being murdered…and surviving."
-Darth Caedus

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.09.2012 , 10:26 PM | #16
Frow Wookiepedia, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_meditation

Battle Meditation:

"Battle meditation was a Force ability which considerably boosted the morale, stamina, and overall battle prowess of an individual's allies while simultaneously reducing the opposition's combat-effectiveness by eroding their will to fight. With the Force, one could coordinate entire fleets of ships, allowing them to perform at maximum efficiency, acting as a single entity with the ability to counter every enemy move quickly and effectively. Though ideal for meditating large-scale conflicts, battle meditation was equally effective when employed for the benefit of one's comrades in small skirmishes, attacks, and duels."

I remember from "Darth Bane: Rule of Two" that the Ithorian using battle meditation aided the Jedi Masters in their fight, making them faster, stronger, and yes, more confident. I still think that battle meditation would give Kaan the edge, even with Sadow's illusions.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.09.2012 , 10:35 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Frow Wookiepedia, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_meditation

Battle Meditation:

"Battle meditation was a Force ability which considerably boosted the morale, stamina, and overall battle prowess of an individual's allies while simultaneously reducing the opposition's combat-effectiveness by eroding their will to fight. With the Force, one could coordinate entire fleets of ships, allowing them to perform at maximum efficiency, acting as a single entity with the ability to counter every enemy move quickly and effectively. Though ideal for meditating large-scale conflicts, battle meditation was equally effective when employed for the benefit of one's comrades in small skirmishes, attacks, and duels."

I remember from "Darth Bane: Rule of Two" that the Ithorian using battle meditation aided the Jedi Masters in their fight, making them faster, stronger, and yes, more confident. I still think that battle meditation would give Kaan the edge, even with Sadow's illusions.
I don't think Battle Meditation affects illusions. He would have to actively engage Sadow in a war of wills to do so. If he did, Kaan would lose. Sadow's will allowed him to visualize the galaxy and create massive illusions on a galactic scale, affecting several battles. Kaan had difficulty contending with a Jedi's will.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.10.2012 , 03:08 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
How would Massassi warriors fare against Kaan's army?
That's a good question. I think they would do pretty good, but Kaan's army has the advantage until they get close. We've seen the Massassi do some damage against the Jedi Order.

Overall, I think Naga Sadow's illusions will win this one. They may be illusions, but they cause actual damage against their foes. And Naga Sadow can create a limitless supply of them. The only way Kaan can beat Sadow's illusions is if he attacks Sadow himself. In this scenario, Sadow's location would be known only to himself since Gav Daragon is not in the picture.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.10.2012 , 04:50 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Overall, I think Naga Sadow's illusions will win this one. They may be illusions, but they cause actual damage against their foes. And Naga Sadow can create a limitless supply of them.
This is why I was trying to argue the Battle Meditation point. :P

I'm still skeptical about the illusions. What are their limitations?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?