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serious question/confusion regarding accuracy and gunnery

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
serious question/confusion regarding accuracy and gunnery

wrathchildd's Avatar


wrathchildd
10.31.2012 , 09:11 AM | #1
Everything I have ever read on the subject, guides, conventional wisdom, community consensus suggest that we should be at or as close to 100% accuracy (ranged) and therefore 110% tech accuracy so as to deal with boss mitigation which has been puported to be 10%.

I have very diligently balanced my spec around this principle with all other factors being considered. Within the crit threshold, at the surge diminshing returns cap etc.

Recently however I have become concerned that this accuracy cap assertion may not be correct in practice and am therefore polling the gunnery community for their input.

I have a fellow gunnery guildie who sits at 90% accuracy (ranged) and swears he never misses. In place of that accuracy he is stacking additional crit and power. He is parsing exceptionally well in HM TFB roughly 150 dps better than our other commandos in the other raid groups who are accuracy capped in equivalent gear.

Just looking for the thoughts of the community here with respect to this seemingly contrarian finding.

HileyQuiggley's Avatar


HileyQuiggley
10.31.2012 , 09:26 AM | #2
I would really like to see his parses because it does make a difference for me. You also cannot stack more crit and power by lowering your accuracy, its on a different tier. You could however stack more surge but wouldnt gain any significant amount.

Even at 97% I noticed a difference now that im at 99.9%. Using all 61's you should be at 285 Accuracy/Surge is what I figured. Gets you 99.89% accuracy and 75.82% surge.

If he is out dps'ing your other commandos then my feelings are your other commandos arent that good at their rotation's. Check your parses and APM's, that might tell the story to your other commandos. I get between 26-28 APM's. Check his and compare, if hes got a few more than your other commandos its a rotation or ammo management issue not accuracy.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.31.2012 , 09:45 AM | #3
You never need accuracy to guarantee a hit with a Tech attack. Bosses have a small Defense chance (I've heard numbers between 6% and 10%, but nothing guaranteed), but no Resist chance. As such, the default 100% chance to hit with Force/Tech powers is all that you ever need (this is why DPS sages have no need to stack accuracy whatsoever).

As Gunnery, you need to look at what your attacks break down as. Grav Round is Tech, Demolition Round is Tech, Sticky Grenade and Plasma Grenade are both Tech, Full Auto is ranged, Hammer Shot is ranged, and HiB is ranged. From my understanding of Gunnery's DPS spread, a pretty substantial majority of your damage is going to be Tech based and, as such, get no real benefit from accuracy. Since you're only getting partial benefits from accuracy, it's entirely plausible that you could eke more damage out of your itemization by getting rid of some degree of accuracy and replacing it with Surge or Alacrity.
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Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
10.31.2012 , 10:19 AM | #4
Never missing with attacks whilst having no bonus to accuracy implies one of three things:

He's fantastically, statistics-defyingly lucky.
He's not actually noticing when he misses.
He doesn't use Full Auto, High Impact Bolt or Hammer Shot.

After the (easily obtainable) soft cap to surge rating, its worth as a stat nosedives. If he's dropped all accuracy for surge and is doing around 150 dps more than your other commandos, they're doing something wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
From my understanding of Gunnery's DPS spread, a pretty substantial majority of your damage is going to be Tech based and, as such, get no real benefit from accuracy.
Unless we're AoEing things, gunnery tech damage isn't really a 'substantial majority'.

oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
10.31.2012 , 10:27 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
From my understanding of Gunnery's DPS spread, a pretty substantial majority of your damage is going to be Tech based and, as such, get no real benefit from accuracy. Since you're only getting partial benefits from accuracy, it's entirely plausible that you could eke more damage out of your itemization by getting rid of some degree of accuracy and replacing it with Surge or Alacrity.
it's true that tech based attacks make up a lot of the damage, but so does ranged since full auto is typically the highest contributor of damage and HIB does a hefty sum on its own. hammershot generally doesn't contribute that much though, but adding up hammershot, HIB, and full auto, they generally contribute ~45-50% of my overall damage

i can assure you that there is no partial benefit from accuracy.



i'm assuming that the person mentioned in the OP doesn't parse (or doesn't use a parser that keeps track of misses). i upload a lot of my parses to askmrrobot.com and i can assure you that i missed quite a lot when i didn't have a lot of accuracy, and no amount of accuracy stacking is going to make hammershot never miss.
not that it's a huge deal if hammershot misses, but he's obviously lying if he says he never misses.
(not to mention that he can't add crit and power in lieu of accuracy)


that said, i wouldn't be opposed to someone doing tests and confirming if this were true, however, from what i can tell:
a 10% drop in accuracy would equate to a ~5% drop in dps
if i were to put all of this into surge, i would get a 5% boost on crits only, and i don't see that making up for and surpassing the difference.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.31.2012 , 12:00 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Bleeters View Post
Unless we're AoEing things, gunnery tech damage isn't really a 'substantial majority'.
Hail of Bolts is a ranged attack, so the only AoE Tech attacks a Commando gets are Mortar Volley, Plasma Grenade, and Sticky Grenade. If a majority of your AoE damage comes from those instead of HoB, I'd be curious what you define "AoEing" as (I generally define it as spending more than just 2-3 GCDs every 15 seconds but I guess you could count only Mortar Volley + Plasma Grenade occasions as the only times you really "AoE").

Like I said, I'm not a Commando DPS, much less a Gunnery Commando, so I don't know how the Tech/ranged spread for your damage ends up turning out, but, even if Tech and ranged damage are roughly evenly split, all of that accuracy itemization is only benefiting one-half of your total damage, which still amounts to realistically partial returns. It would be like replacing the Power on your armor with Tech Power. It's only benefiting half of your DPS whereas all of the other stats you can stack would benefit a larger portion so there is some logical consistency to the supposition that getting rid of accuracy and replacing it with surge or alacrity would increase your overall DPS.
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oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
10.31.2012 , 02:36 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Like I said, I'm not a Commando DPS, much less a Gunnery Commando.
i'm not sure i see the logic in making such strong assertions about the class then.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.31.2012 , 02:56 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
i'm not sure i see the logic in making such strong assertions about the class then.
It's about basic theorycrafting and logic. If 50% of your DPS doesn't benefit from a stat that already has questionable DPS value, then there is some logical foundation to the idea that getting rid of it to improve your DPS.
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PanzerJagdhund's Avatar


PanzerJagdhund
10.31.2012 , 05:39 PM | #9
Ranged Accuracy should be at 100%, thus making Tech 110%. If you were to try a fight with under 90% ranged accuracy and then switch to 100%, you will see a huge difference.

As of Game Update 1.3, dps Commando's became an armor pen class. Thus, having 100% ranged accuracy is a must, so that Full Auto and HiB benefit from it.

Now whether you want to be a crit/surge, a power/surge, or a power/crit/surge is up to you.

Now if you have never made a specific class, don't talk about it like you know what you are talking about. Even if you are theory crafting, do not talk about it. You will miss a lot of aspects of the class.
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DariusCalera
10.31.2012 , 05:42 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
It's about basic theorycrafting and logic. If 50% of your DPS doesn't benefit from a stat that already has questionable DPS value, then there is some logical foundation to the idea that getting rid of it to improve your DPS.
Both our ranged and tech attacks do benefit from accuracy. After 100% accuracy is achieved, anything beyond that adds to armor penetration which helps out tech attacks.

Our most damaging attacks are our ranged attacks, Full Auto and HiB, and unless someone is doing something drastically wrong, or unless it was nothing but a zerg attack by handfuls of weak mobs, these two attacks are going to be doing more damage that Demo Round, Grav Round, Inc Grenade, Pulse Cannon, and Sticky Grenade combined.

That makes accuracy worth it.