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Your favourite Star Wars ideology,

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Your favourite Star Wars ideology,

Tomb-Stone's Avatar


Tomb-Stone
10.26.2012 , 01:10 PM | #11
"Do or Do Not... There Is No Try."

I always liked this ideology even though I am not a fan of Yoda or the way he talks. I think this quote applies to all of my characters. I realize it's a very common quote but it works for me.
Tomb-Stone
Common Sense Is Like Deodorant. The People Who Need It The Most Never Use It...

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
10.26.2012 , 01:24 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by namoise View Post
I think that Revan had it figured out the best. The Jedi and Sith castrate themselves by only using half of the force
Half the force? the force isn't some cake, one half Light, one half Dark, you are always using the 'whole' force, but the way in which you are effected by the force is what takes you down a certain path.

Regardless, Kreia came up with the idea of not relying on one side or the other, problem was, she was in denial and had actually been a pretty obvious Dark Sider all along.

Liquidacid's Avatar


Liquidacid
10.26.2012 , 01:58 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Half the force? the force isn't some cake, one half Light, one half Dark, you are always using the 'whole' force, but the way in which you are effected by the force is what takes you down a certain path.

Regardless, Kreia came up with the idea of not relying on one side or the other, problem was, she was in denial and had actually been a pretty obvious Dark Sider all along.
Kreia did not come up with it... the Je'daii Order at least was doing it 30,000+ years before she was even born

also worth pointing out the whole "there is no light or dark there is just the force" (the Unifying Force view) is not really held in GL's lore and is said (by Luke and others) to be incorrect in the latest EU lore... Luke even refers to it as a false theory a sith infiltrator (Vergere) tried to introduce... not saying it couldn't be correct or won't be brought back into lore later tho because it's never stated as wrong in the EU by fact just by character dialog and hey they could be wrong... we also have the whole "white current" (which Luke claims to be an offshoot of the normal force) and Aing-Tii "rainbow force" things...
"bibo ergo sum" ( I drink, therefore I am)

Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
10.26.2012 , 02:27 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquidacid View Post
Kreia did not come up with it... the Je'daii Order at least was doing it 30,000+ years before she was even born

also worth pointing out the whole "there is no light or dark there is just the force" (the Unifying Force view) is not really held in GL's lore and is said (by Luke and others) to be incorrect in the latest EU lore... Luke even refers to it as a false theory a sith infiltrator (Vergere) tried to introduce... not saying it couldn't be correct or won't be brought back into lore later tho because it's never stated as wrong in the EU by fact just by character dialog and hey they could be wrong... we also have the whole "white current" (which Luke claims to be an offshoot of the normal force) and Aing-Tii "rainbow force" things...
No no, Kreia was simply saying all the answers can't be found down one path or the other, she is saying to experience both and then have the wider view which gives much greater power. "You must see the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal.'(that might be slightly off.), the Je'daii were quite different in their beliefs.

I wasn't talking about the unifying force at all, the Dark Side or the Light Side aren't half of a whole, they are traversed by doing certain things, through certain actions and mindsets.

Liquidacid's Avatar


Liquidacid
10.26.2012 , 02:41 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
No no, Kreia was simply saying all the answers can't be found down one path or the other, she is saying to experience both and then have the wider view which gives much greater power. "You must see the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal.'(that might be slightly off.), the Je'daii were quite different in their beliefs.

I wasn't talking about the unifying force at all, the Dark Side or the Light Side aren't half of a whole, they are traversed by doing certain things, through certain actions and mindsets.
again what Kreia was doing was the same thing the Je'daii Order did... they believed to understand the force you had to live in "balance" and experience both the light and dark... the only difference was that Kreia was full of crap and obviously dark side even after claiming to "view both sides" while the Je'daii actually did view and use both sides to get a better perspective

also you don't seem to be getting what the unifying force is... it says light and dark are not separate halves of the force but that the force is just the force and light and dark depend on how you use it and your intentions... which sounds exactly like the same thing you are talking about... as far as the Jedi in lore are concerned they overwhelmingly believe the Light and Darkside ARE 2 halves of the whole that is the force and that you could draw from either one
"bibo ergo sum" ( I drink, therefore I am)

Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
10.26.2012 , 02:46 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquidacid View Post
again what Kreia was doing was the same thing the Je'daii Order did... they believed to understand the force you had to live in "balance" and experience both the light and dark... the only difference was that Kreia was full of crap and obviously dark side even after claiming to "view both sides" while the Je'daii actually did view and use both sides to get a better perspective

also you don't seem to be getting what the unifying force is... it says light and dark are not separate halves of the force but that the force is just the force and light and dark depend on how you use it and your intentions... which sounds exactly the same thing you are talking about...
/Facepalm.

/facepalm.

It is not the same thing at all, she wanted people to be able to go down both paths and be able to seek moderation, as she had done and realise that the force was NOT a good thing and that it held no real truths, problem was, she was too vengeful to be able to deny the Dark Side.

I stated something entirely different, I am stating your emotions and actions or lack thereof decide whether or not you go down one path or the other, how is that the unifying force?

Please finally realise that I was correcting someone claiming that Jedi and Sith only use 'one half' of the force.

Liquidacid's Avatar


Liquidacid
10.26.2012 , 02:59 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
/Facepalm.

/facepalm.

It is not the same thing at all, she wanted people to be able to go down both paths and be able to seek moderation, as she had done and realise that the force was NOT a good thing and that it held no real truths, problem was, she was too vengeful to be able to deny the Dark Side.

I stated something entirely different, I am stating your emotions and actions or lack thereof decide whether or not you go down one path or the other, how is that the unifying force?

Please finally realise that I was correcting someone claiming that Jedi and Sith only use 'one half' of the force.
going down both paths to seek moderation? how is that different than using and viewing both paths (going down) and finding a balance (moderation) from it? the Je'daii did exactly what she was saying to do only the actually DID find balance and moderation... well for a time anyway.. Kreia also drew a different conclusion from it but then again she was tainted and darkside anyway... but anyway no she did not come up with the idea numerous other sects and groups tried and did it before... numerous other individuals went down both paths to see both sides before her

as far as emotions and actions dictating the path... yes your emotions and actions decide if you become light or dark to an extent but that does not disprove the fact the Jedi, GL and the lore say that the light and Dark are two separate parts of the force thus a Jedi would only use the light side which is 1 of those 2... so saying they only used 1/2 is perfectly correct as a generalized statement meaning they were only using one of the two parts of it instead of all (both sides) of it... which is what he seemed to mean
"bibo ergo sum" ( I drink, therefore I am)

Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
10.26.2012 , 03:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquidacid View Post
going down both paths to seek moderation? how is that different than using and viewing both paths (going down) and finding a balance (moderation) from it? the Je'daii did exactly what she was saying to do only the actually DID find balance and moderation... well for a time anyway.. but anyway no she did not come up with the idea numerous other sects and groups tried and did it before

as far as emotions and actions dictating the path... yes your emotions and actions decide if you become light or dark to an extent but that does not disprove the fact the Jedi, GL and the lore say that the light and Dark are two separate parts of the force thus say a Jedi would only use the light side which is 1 of those 2... so saying they only used 1/2, while maybe not 100 percent accurate because we don't know the size difference between the light and dark side, is perfectly correct as a generalized statement meaning they were only using part of it instead of all (both sides) of it
Because her plan was to be free of it's influence, to be able to know the force well enough to not let it control you, it is the exact opposite of what the Je'daii wanted to do, same method, totally opposing results.

You are taking that in the completely wrong direction, the light side and the Dark Side of the force are of the force, that is what I am saying, they are not mutually exclusive or totally different things, they are different parts of the force, they are different ways of using the force, by wielding the Dark Side, you aren't missing out on power, as they are just the two different ways of using the force, yes they are different, but they aren't anything but the force, choosing one doesn't mean you lose any power of the other.

There are different abilities and techniques that can be learnt, that are exclusive to one path, but it doesn't mean you are only empowered by half of the force, there is no 'half' to the force, just the force.

Liquidacid's Avatar


Liquidacid
10.26.2012 , 03:24 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Because her plan was to be free of it's influence, to be able to know the force well enough to not let it control you, it is the exact opposite of what the Je'daii wanted to do, same method, totally opposing results.

You are taking that in the completely wrong direction, the light side and the Dark Side of the force are of the force, that is what I am saying, they are not mutually exclusive or totally different things, they are different parts of the force, they are different ways of using the force, by wielding the Dark Side, you aren't missing out on power, as they are just the two different ways of using the force, yes they are different, but they aren't anything but the force, choosing one doesn't mean you lose any power of the other.

There are different abilities and techniques that can be learnt, that are exclusive to one path, but it doesn't mean you are only empowered by half of the force, there is no 'half' to the force, just the force.
see again the Jedi in lore believe that the light and dark side while both parts of the force are mutually exclusive... they believe when you draw on the light side you are ONLY drawing on the light "part" of the force and vice verse for the dark side... the Unifying force theory is the one that says there is just the force and that light and dark are just different "ways" of accessing it... neither the Jedi nor the Sith believe in that.. they believe, well the majority of them anyway, the light and dark are two separate parts.. which is where his "only using 1/2" comment came from... it's also very similar to Bane's reasoning (which he actually got in part from Revan's holocron) behind the rule of two because he felt there were to many sith drawing on the dark side "spreading it out to thin" and that if there were LESS sith they could draw on more of the darkside since they didn't have to share it

again as I said the lore has never specifically stated they are separate or just different ways of using the same thing as an absolute fact... in lore it is said either way (and others) as in universe theories force users have believed... tho it is again worth noting in GL's works he always refers to the light and dark side as two separate parts

I personally believe they will keep the "true" nature and workings of the force as a mystery always kind of like say religion is in real life... it's just more interesting that way... think of all the story lines in the EU that revolve around different people having different opinions of what or how the force works... the whole mystery of the force deal is a big part of the SW IP
"bibo ergo sum" ( I drink, therefore I am)

Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.26.2012 , 03:32 PM | #20
Far as the force goes there is no lightside/darkside within the force ITSELF.

It simply is, the force, not light, not dark simply is. WE AS BEINGS are light and dark, and the force will simply reflect that and amplify that in a person.

I think when yoda says 'go down the darkside, forever will it dominate your destiny", i think this is the darkside of humanity is more seductive. Easier to get things, easier to get POWER which some people crave.

Again, the force ITSELF is not light nor dark, simply is. We as beings are light and dark.
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