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Back after 9 months off. Dps meters yet?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
Back after 9 months off. Dps meters yet?

Kanjir's Avatar


Kanjir
10.11.2012 , 06:13 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Leovinus View Post
Not really. My raid team is currently progressing through TFB HM (we've spent all of an hour, maybe 1.5, in there so far, due to some RL stuff and we killed the first boss). They dabbled in using a 3rd party parser, but ultimately realized that having the realtime parsing stuff going on was detrimental. It's so easy to just focus on that and forget that you need to do other stuff too, like control aggro and deal with other fight conditions that might decrease your personal dps.

So, no, progression raiders do not "nearly always" use parsers. They're simply not necessary. Do they make things a bit easier. Sure, I guess so. Are they even remotely close to necessary? Nope, and I hope they never are, because that's when the fun gets sucked out of the game.
If you're sitting there looking at the meters during the fight and not paying attention to mechanics then you're doing something wrong. They are there to analyse after the fight and fix problems. One of the dps is only doing 1k in BiS? You now know and can fix it. Tanks taking more damage on specific platforms of TFB HM last boss? You can see and make changes accordingly. Plus, I find them fun to see where I sit compared to other classes/specs on bosses.

Maybe I should have changed it to "if you are a serious progression raider then you would in most cases have used a dps meter at some point". Once again, it is a tool to improve your performance. Use it or not, its up to you.

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
10.11.2012 , 06:15 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Kanjir View Post
Maybe when you start doing content which requires 8/16 players that need to be somewhat coordinated then you will see why you need to make sure people are pulling their weight. I don't see any reason not to use a dps parser such as mox while you raid unless your worried that you aren't pulling what you should be, unless of course you are playing the game on a casual basis. Those aiming for progression and farming endgame content nearly always use parsers. It's a tool to compare yourself to others and then work on improving, also it's useful to analyse mechanics and then work out a more effective way to clear specific content. I'm all about using everything and every opportunity to improve.

It may just come down to a different interpretation of fun, but personally I only find it fun when I know im pulling my weight as a dps and am able to see where I need to improve. Then again, I respect that many may call my play-style "elitist".
What part of ops storymode and ops hardmode didnt you get from my post?

Ive done the 8 man stuff.
DPS meter not needed or required

as for 16, maybe you got a point there!
Though I know numberous people that did do successful 16 man runs and not one of them mentioned needing a DPS Meter for problem analyzist of any kinda!
They all knew where they were strong and where they were weak in and what to work on with out the numbers.

As for pullling your own weight
You call yourself an elitists and you cant tell if your pulling your own weight??????
You know the damage does apear as you do it on screen right?
Somehow many many many people know when they do a 4-5-10k hit in 16 man pvp or ops,
why cant you?

I dont care one way or other about DPS Meters personally
I have a dedicated ops group so I focus on team work over personal glory and numbers
but spare the song and dance about them being required or needed in TOR as its simply not true

I say again, anything short of Nightmare, hardmode EC, or yes I guess 16 man ops doesnt really need a DPS Meter to see how you did and where any issues may lay.
And I dont see the above content groups picking up many pugs to fill spots on said content so they already know what they getting and what they can expect from those in attendance.

As for personal glory,
I wouldnt call you elitist for that
and lets leave it at that

My advice, pay attention and you will know roughly the range of damage your doing consistantly

PS: If its pvp wz, they tell you your damage at end of warzone in the tally sheet.

PPS: My Ops character is a main healer so my DPS meter is when everyone laying dead on the ground or not!
I couldnt care less if I do a 2k or 10k heal
All im focused on is keeping everyone up and moving on to next stage

And when learning EC I screwed up majorly multiple times and didnt need a DPS meter to tell me what I was doing wrong and where. Some self reflection afterwards and trusted conversation on tactics, not numbers, was all thats needed. Very next time up, slight change in position on me and tank and bam, 2 dead bosses and onto next stage.

But if your REALLY focused on the dps output,
heres some free advice
Boss = dead = good dps
Boss = Enraged = need more dps
That pretty much covers any 4-8-16 man situation you run into

See, simple

You may want a DPS meter for ego
But its not required in TOR
Housing brought me back
now add Paazaak, KotOR#1 swoop bike racing, and more flashpoints and planets

Kanjir's Avatar


Kanjir
10.11.2012 , 06:29 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalfear View Post
What part of ops storymode and ops hardmode didnt you get from my post?

Ive done the 8 man stuff.
DPS meter not needed or required

as for 16, maybe you got a point there!
Though I know numberous people that did do successful 16 man runs and not one of them mentioned needing a DPS Meter for problem analyzist of any kinda!
They all knew where they were strong and where they were weak in and what to work on with out the numbers.

As for pullling your own weight
You call yourself an elitists and you cant tell if your pulling your own weight??????
You know the damage does apear as you do it on screen right?
Somehow many many many people know when they do a 4-5-10k hit in 16 man pvp or ops,
why cant you?


I dont care one way or other about DPS Meters personally
I have a dedicated ops group so I focus on team work over personal glory and numbers
but spare the song and dance about them being required or needed in TOR as its simply not true

I say again, anything short of Nightmare, hardmode EC, or yes I guess 16 man ops doesnt really need a DPS Meter to see how you did and where any issues may lay.
And I dont see the above content groups picking up many pugs to fill spots on said content so they already know what they getting and what they can expect from those in attendance.

As for personal glory,
I wouldnt call you elitist for that
and lets leave it at that

My advice, pay attention and you will know roughly the range of damage your doing consistantly

PS: If its pvp wz, they tell you your damage at end of warzone in the tally sheet.

PPS: My Ops character is a main healer so my DPS meter is when everyone laying dead on the ground or not!
I couldnt care less if I do a 2k or 10k heal
All im focused on is keeping everyone up and moving on to next stage

And when learning EC I screwed up majorly multiple times and didnt need a DPS meter to tell me what I was doing wrong and where. Some self reflection afterwards and trusted conversation on tactics, not numbers, was all thats needed. Very next time up, slight change in position on me and tank and bam, 2 dead bosses and onto next stage.

But if your REALLY focused on the dps output,
heres some free advice
Boss = dead = good dps
Boss = Enraged = need more dps
That pretty much covers any 4-8-16 man situation you run into

See, simple

You may want a DPS meter for ego
But its not required in TOR
Sorry, I keep forgetting to mention that I'm not talking about anything under HM TFB. Anything under that at this point is somewhat trivial. You also make it quite obvious you don't know what your talking about when you say "Somehow many many many people know when they do a 4-5-10k hit in 16 man pvp or ops,
why cant you?". Even though you aren't a DPS you should know that boss fights are about a mixture of sustained and burst dps. It means very little seeing damage peel off a boss. If you're sitting there watching the damage then you're doing something wrong. Maybe if you started using a DPS meter with skilled players you would see the difference in damage even from tanks.

Also, people do pug for all content surprisingly. Sometimes people have RL commitments and can't make it to raids - hence pugging. I never said dps meters were a necessity. I never stated that EVERYONE MUST USE ONE!!1!11one1!. All I stated is that more progression and endgame orientated raiders will tend to use them whereas casuals wont.

P.S. The point you seemed to miss was the fact that I wasn't explicitly talking about measuring myself, but others as well. It's useful to be able to know how much dps OTHER people are doing in case we need to split dps for fights or make a dps swap.

Nemmar's Avatar


Nemmar
10.11.2012 , 06:37 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by GalacticKegger View Post
No sir. Bioware's made it clear - no in-game addons ... and they're sticking to it. Which is fine by me personally as I left WoW because it got to the point where the challenge was in mastering the mods instead of the game. The only "mod" (if you will) that I felt the game lacked at launch was a customizable UI. That was handled rather nicely with the 1.2 patch back in April.
This. Mods end up beeing cheating tools that will give you unfair advatageous, and one of the reasons why WoW PvP is a joke. The basis of every PvP experience has to be to have everyone play under the same conditions and with the same tools.

Kanjir's Avatar


Kanjir
10.11.2012 , 06:44 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
This. Mods end up beeing cheating tools that will give you unfair advatageous, and one of the reasons why WoW PvP is a joke. The basis of every PvP experience has to be to have everyone play under the same conditions and with the same tools.
SWTOR doesn't even do this. You have people vastly out-gearing others in the 50 pvp bracket. For it to be equal there would have to be no expertise. Or simply have a wait room like GW2 where you have the ability to freely customise your gear how you see fit.

Immudzen's Avatar


Immudzen
10.11.2012 , 06:58 AM | #36
I would prefer not to see damage parsers in this game because of the damage I have seen them do in others. Since this game does not really have buffing classes it probably won't do as much damage but I still really don't want to see them again.

Those parsers have ruined so many things in games like EQ1 or EQ2 where people decide that someone needs to do more dps and instead ends up pulling aggro off the tank and wiping the group. Overall I just find that it encourages bad behavior in games and leads to a lot more difficulties.

I have run into some people in this game already where when I have been the tank after a fight I try to heal up but the dps have already run off to attack another target while the healer and I are trying to recover from the last one. The group sometimes then ends up wiping and the dps are the ones that get upset when all they had to do is wait about 5 seconds.

We don't need even more incentives for people to be sugar hyped morons.

Chuckbobuck's Avatar


Chuckbobuck
10.11.2012 , 07:35 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by NinjaApacHe View Post
Mmmmm, why do I have a smell of a troll?
definitely. and a successful one.
Herbie Hancock, Fat Mama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wNY9JFR-KY

powertech ... or vanguard?

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
10.11.2012 , 07:40 AM | #38
We don't need that garbage in this game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what the problem is when a boss doesn't die.

If you really want to know your combat log, turn on logging and dump it into a 3rd party parsing program.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

Malastare's Avatar


Malastare
10.11.2012 , 07:48 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by recsa View Post
As you can clearly see in this thread, most of the long term raiders left the game, casuals dont use to like DPS/HPS/Threat meters.
Translated from MMOElitist into English:

Quote:
As you can see in this thread, most of the elitist game snobs left the game, normal people don't see a point in DPS/HPS/Threat meters, as they're here for fun, not to impress other snobs.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
10.11.2012 , 07:58 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by GalacticKegger View Post
No sir. Bioware's made it clear - no in-game addons ... and they're sticking to it. Which is fine by me personally as I left WoW because it got to the point where the challenge was in mastering the mods instead of the game. The only "mod" (if you will) that I felt the game lacked at launch was a customizable UI. That was handled rather nicely with the 1.2 patch back in April.
The one thing I will say about add-ons is that in WoW there have been a number of add-ons that have become features of the game. the advantage of having add-ons is that you increase the "developer pool" many times over. The disadvantage is that there are a lot of add-ons that will be junk.

Maybe something for BioWare to think about - Apple approves every app that end up in the app store. There are quite literally thousands of apps that never make it. If BioWare did the same thing with add-ons there could be a lot of good features implemented with little to no time and money spent by BioWare.

On the subject of DPS meters. If used correctly - to HELP players get better - it is a useful tool. the problem is that it is NOT universally used correctly. There will ALWAYS be elitists who shove meters in the faces of those who do not do as well as they do, and will kick players from groups because of it even though they are doing sufficiently well to clear the content - just not fast enough for the elitists.