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Tanking stats discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Tanking stats discussion

Aerilas's Avatar


Aerilas
09.30.2012 , 05:53 AM | #1
Hi there,

I'm a Shadow tank and I'm in a situation where my guildmaster doesn't agree on my stats.
I fully geared myself in favor of stats (this being Defense, Shield and Absorb), and not endurance.

Hence, being BIS (pre 1.4) I had these stats:

31% Defense chance
65% Shield Chance (WITH kinetic Ward and Rakata boost), 45% without both. But since i keep both up, its 65%.
60% Absorb Chance.
WITH Exotech might stim: 25956 hp.

Now the guildmaster tells me i have too low hp and should ditch stats for hp. I personally don't agree.
Healers have been telling me since forever that I'm a breeze to heal since I get hit for such low numbers.

What's your opinion?

haksilence's Avatar


haksilence
09.30.2012 , 02:40 PM | #2
now here is a perfect example. this is an extremely poor conception alot of people have. endurance meens NOTHING in tanking. expecialy shadow tanking. the more you mitigate the better because mitigation makes it easiest on your healers. stacking endurance is a foolish waste of resources, and will practicaly doom your group if you dont have a healer that can keep up. even if you do have a healer that can keep your squishy *** up he will not have the time to focus on the other members of the group. ALWAYS choose higher mitigation over HP. ALWAYS

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
09.30.2012 , 02:42 PM | #3
Just curious, what role does your guildmaster play?

Aerilas's Avatar


Aerilas
09.30.2012 , 04:05 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by SgtKlavier View Post
Just curious, what role does your guildmaster play?
Thank you haksilence, good to have someone on my team.


and sgtklavier, he's a Guardian

alkhattabi's Avatar


alkhattabi
10.01.2012 , 08:28 AM | #5
do u mind posting ur stat numbers not the % with KW and rakata stim or post a link of ur gear if u can

Armor Rating
Damage Reduction
Defense Chance
Shield Chance
Shield Absorption

Thank you

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
10.01.2012 , 08:33 AM | #6
Guardian dps or tank? Might just be my personal experience, but I've noticed a higher portion of Guardian (Jugg) tanks that stack endurance; not sure why this is the case, but it doesn't make sense. 25k is plenty.

Aerilas's Avatar


Aerilas
10.01.2012 , 10:28 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by alkhattabi View Post
do u mind posting ur stat numbers not the % with KW and rakata stim or post a link of ur gear if u can

Armor Rating
Damage Reduction
Defense Chance
Shield Chance
Shield Absorption

Thank you
I must say this first, since the 1.4 patch my Armor rating has gone down about 600, and my defense % and Damage Reduction about 2%.... and I can NOT find out why.

5618 Armor Rating
38.22 Damage Reduction
593 Defense Rating
554 Shield Rating
586 Absorb rating

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.01.2012 , 10:45 AM | #8
Your stats are fine, if not excellent. 31/65/60 is an excellent distribution for Shadow tanks and, honestly, the direct survivability value of increased HP is questionable at best (the only contribution is the 8% of your hp you get back when using HSx3 TkT and the direct healing provided when using Battle Readiness).

Unless your guild leader is a healer (which he's not), I wouldn't give a damn about what he says about your HP. If your healers are complaining about the size of your hp pool, I'd look into increasing it but 26k is more than enough (my Shadow tank actually has only 25k and I have yet to get a single complaint).

From what I can tell, your guild leader is likely an hp stacking tank. You, on the other hand, are a mitigation stacking tank. You belong to, largely, completely different schools of tank stat allotment.

The mitigation stacking school (which is the same school of thought that I belong to about this) would rather take less damage than be able to take more damage. The fact that all of the current content emphasizes a largely consistent blend of Force/Tech and melee/ranged attacks (such that you're capable of mitigating a substantial majority of the damage via mitigation stats in any specific fight) means that, over time, a mitigation stacked tank will take less damage and need to be healed less than an hp stacked tank.

The hp stacking school would rather be able to take more damage than take less damage. The general focus of this school of thought is to build yourself to most effectively deal with the rare cases wherein you take a large amount of damage completely unmitigated (such as a string of attacks that you don't dodge, parry, or deflect or a series of high damage Force/Tech attacks). Since the focus of the school of thought is the specific times wherein the only stat that matters is Endurance, it becomes the only stat worth stacking to any appreciable extent. Of course, the problem with this school of though is that, by sacrificing mitigation stats, they end up making the rare cases more common (lower shield and defense chance increase the likelihood of an attack getting through completely unmitigated) as well as outright increasing your incoming damage overall (lower absorb chance means even those attacks you mitigate, you don't mitigate as much). The end effect is a conceptualization that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy wherein they build for those rare cases and end up causes more of those rare cases to occur. It also has the problem of shifting more of the burden of survivability onto the healers since, as you'll be taking more damage, it will require them to spend more time healing you (and more of the resources to boot).

The HP stacking school had some reasonably decent points when KP and EV were the top tier content: the damage weighted ratio of F/T to m/r attacks in those instances was much heavier on the F/T side of things, meaning that the value of mitigation stats was substantially reduced. The newer content (EC and TfB) has been designed to have a ratio that favors mitigation more than the previous content. As such, most tanks that actually know what they're doing have shifted from Endurance stacking to mitigation stacking (that is, if they were ever Endurance stackers).

One of my biggest problems with Endurance stacking is the comparative improvements: by stacking Endurance and only Endurance, you'll manage to get an extra 5k hp (30k hp total or thereabouts), which seems like a lot until you realize that it's only 20% more hp at the cost of roughly 25-33% of your total mitigation budget (~360 rating equates to ~4600 hp which, with raid buffs and talents, equates to 5k hp). 20% more hp isn't that big of a deal, as I see it, and, even with DR, that big of a chunk of your total mitigation budget is going to make you take more than 20% more comparative incoming damage (70% total mitigation compared to 75% total mitigation is a 20% difference in incoming damage and that's gonna be a fair deal more than that).

This isn't to say that Endurance stacking is just for baddies. It's not. It's a valid choice for how to gear your tank, but it's not the only choice, nor is it the best. It's effective and has been shown to clear content just as well as mitigation stacking. It's just not what I would even remotely claim as the best way to gear yourself for clearing content (unless you plan on taking a lot of damage that you should really not be taking).
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TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.01.2012 , 12:38 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerilas View Post
I'm a Shadow tank and I'm in a situation where my guildmaster doesn't agree on my stats. I fully geared myself in favor of stats (this being Defense, Shield and Absorb), and not endurance.

What's your opinion?
Wow, Kitru. Wonder if shield procs on incoming walls of text?

My opinion is, your guild leader is off his nut. Your stats are fine, more than fine, for any content in the game currently. HP tanking has been shown time and time again to be inferior to stacking defense stats.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.01.2012 , 01:11 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
Wow, Kitru. Wonder if shield procs on incoming walls of text?
It says it right there in my sig: I loves me some walls of text.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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