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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
01.15.2013 , 08:19 PM | #5301
I'm still trying to figure out exactly how politics fit in to any of this. Is Bioware going to be running for a Senator or something?
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

SirGladiator's Avatar


SirGladiator
01.15.2013 , 09:14 PM | #5302
It doesn't really matter if they fix things one patch at a time or all at once, I don't care if they fix the companion romances one or two classes per week, or all at once, so long as they do it. Same with the flirt options, I don't care if they do it one or two planets at a time, or all at once, that's all irrelevant, the point is simply that we want them to do it. I doubt that even if they did it all in one patch it would make the patch all that big, since really all they're doing is removing the gender checks for the romances and flirts and adding in a bit of VA, hard to imagine that making the patch all that insanely big, but even if it did who cares, we've waited way over a year, waiting a couple weeks for the patch to come in parts wouldn't be a big deal.

As for the whole 'politics' thing, everybody's got an agenda, including the trolls. There isn't anybody who doesn't. The original decision to not allow us to have any romances was due to an agenda. The reason they haven't fixed it yet and given us what Skyrim, DA2, etc etc gives us is due to an agenda. Yes, some of the articles written also have an agenda in the other direction, but one part of them I agree with is the criticism, because its been way over a year and they still havent fixed this even though its super easy to do, so while we'd all love to believe they're telling the truth when they say they're still planning on doing it, the fact is they've brazenly lied about how 'unexpectedly hard' it was to do, when all it takes is disabling the gender checks, changing the occasional pronoun, and adding in the main character's voice, there's nothing unexpectedly hard about that. Now, just because one guy is a liar doesn't mean everybody that works for the game is one too, of course not, most are on our side, but it does mean you have to go on the assumption that they're not going to give us anything at all unless absolutely forced to by bad press, because that's the way its been so far, just lie or stay silent and give us nothing until the bad press gets so bad they had to do 'something', and by something they gave us about as little as humanly possible.

I have an agenda also. My agenda is fun. That is the agenda that Skyrim, DD, Fallout NV, etc. had. They weren't about being pro or anti SGR for political or any other kind of agenda reason, other than the fun agenda. What they did was because it made the game more fun. When people can play any romance they want, thats WAY WAY more fun than when they cant. Its also easier for the game designers to make it that way, which gives them more time to make the game better in other ways also. Games are supposed to be about fun, not taking fun away to promote an agenda. Thats what we want, we want the same romances and flirt options as everybody else, because its a lot more fun. And the fact that it would be SO easy for them to make that happen is what is the most frustrating part of the whole thing. That they've gone to such trouble, and told so many lies, etc. just to keep us from enjoying the same romances as everybody else, instead of just making the romance storylines the same as every other storyline in the game, its just crazy. In any other storyline in the game, you can play it regardless of gender. You might get your gender mentioned, you probably won't but you might, but either way you're allowed to play it, and enjoy it no matter what your gender is. To make the romance storylines unplayable is beyond stupid, it was done because of an agenda, and that agenda obviously isn't a pro-fun agenda. All we ask is that they make their agenda what it should have been all along, a pro-fun agenda. We know that most of the devs agree with us. Its the same as it was in the Mass Effect series, they aren't the ones making the decisions, but most folks at Bioware are on our side, even those in the SWTOR team. If/when the head dude decides its not worth all the bad press to keep us from enjoying the game the same as everybody else, we'll get the romances we want and everybody will be happy. They don't even have to make an official announcement, they can just slip it into their regularly scheduled patches that fix other various things that either add to the game or need fixing in the game, I don't care exactly how they do it, I just want to enjoy the game the same as everybody else. Thats it. Hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
01.15.2013 , 10:42 PM | #5303
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Now this is just entitlement issues. There is nothing that says they as a company need to have great communication with any part of the player base. It's a great thing when they do of course. It's an awesome thing! But when making a product (which is what they're doing) they shouldn't be forced into adding a feature they dont have the time/money/whatever to allocate to it, more so if they're not sure it'll be worth the time/money.

Look in this thread at what was posted. "Taking this to GLAAD" or "The devs are obviously anti-gay because it wasn't in, in the first place"

Now that it's started to be put in, the last one seems to be backtracked to "Oh, well, they handled the information poorly." you know, nevermind that they may not have known what would make it in where yet.
Congratulations on entirely missing the point. The post you're quoting was directly related to a blog post by a games developer on how people try and get information out of developers and are rude about it. I stated we tried being polite and it didn't work. I never said they were under some kind of contractual agreement to keep us informed.

Which, of course, you're aware of.
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
01.15.2013 , 10:54 PM | #5304
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
I have an agenda also. My agenda is fun.
Yes...completely agree with you there.

It would be fun to play that part of the story that has even been promoted on their Facebook page from time to time but hey I guess that's so wrong

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.15.2013 , 10:56 PM | #5305
I disgaree that it's going to be as easy as you say it is.

I can't imagine Andy going to a male SI and asking "Ever thought of having kids?" SGR would require different cut scenes and dialogue from what I've seen of them with the romance options.

Why I can believe "time and money" being the reason they werent put in, in the first place. MMOs have investors wanting a show on their investment. And unlike DA, ME ect, this is a game with multiple storylines going on. The others may have a few different options/endings, but they were basically one storyline games.

What I also meant by big patch was lots of work to go in and add in new dialogue and cut scenes. I mean really, for as much as you want SGR, do you want scenes that basically play out as OGR with a gender tag switch?

"One day you'll have my baby and we'll settle down together forever." You know, nevermind that they're both males now.

I'd hope for better than that. Also, I'm not entirely convinced scenes with dialogue would play out well

"Now you're a girl a scoundrel like me can settle down with" turns into "Now you're a...*small weird pause*guy*small weird pause*...a scoundrel like me can settle down with"

Do you even know if they have alternate dialogue recorded? We have no idea at what stage any SGR is at.

I've never heard anyone talk about seeing it in beta and it being removed, like so many other things, so it may not have even been made/recorded as they considered the time/money restraints early on.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.15.2013 , 10:59 PM | #5306
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Congratulations on entirely missing the point. The post you're quoting was directly related to a blog post by a games developer on how people try and get information out of developers and are rude about it. I stated we tried being polite and it didn't work. I never said they were under some kind of contractual agreement to keep us informed.

Which, of course, you're aware of.
Sooo...if you can't get the info you want out of the game devs, you go to being rude? This is a game I'm under the impression that you like since you play it, I'd hate to see how you treat game devs for a game you hate.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
01.15.2013 , 11:02 PM | #5307
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I've never heard anyone talk about seeing it in beta and it being removed, like so many other things, so it may not have even been made/recorded as they considered the time/money restraints early on.
I didn't see it in beta. If ANY of it is recorded then it never made it into the game files (those things will have been datamined like nobody's business).

I don't think it'll be easy and I haven't been given a convincing reason not to believe that time and budget constraints weren't amongst the reasons it was left out. I think it was perhaps unwise to put OGRAs in and leave SGRAs out but I can see the other side - if they had OGRAs done but not SGRAs and decided to leave them both out, then later down the track decided to add OGRAs in (because they were made) and not SGRAs (because they'd run out of money) one can imagine the uproar.

I'm willing to wait and see what Makeb brings. As I've said seevral times I think it'll be interesting as much for how it's presented as for what precise content is presented.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
01.15.2013 , 11:03 PM | #5308
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Sooo...if you can't get the info you want out of the game devs, you go to being rude? This is a game I'm under the impression that you like since you play it, I'd hate to see how you treat game devs for a game you hate.
Did I say I condoned being rude or attacking the developers? Call me crazy but I don't recall doing so.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.16.2013 , 12:01 AM | #5309
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Did I say I condoned being rude or attacking the developers? Call me crazy but I don't recall doing so.
Likely in how I read it. "Dev talks about players being rude" then a comment about how "we tried being polite first"

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.16.2013 , 12:04 AM | #5310
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I didn't see it in beta. If ANY of it is recorded then it never made it into the game files (those things will have been datamined like nobody's business).

I don't think it'll be easy and I haven't been given a convincing reason not to believe that time and budget constraints weren't amongst the reasons it was left out. I think it was perhaps unwise to put OGRAs in and leave SGRAs out but I can see the other side - if they had OGRAs done but not SGRAs and decided to leave them both out, then later down the track decided to add OGRAs in (because they were made) and not SGRAs (because they'd run out of money) one can imagine the uproar.

I'm willing to wait and see what Makeb brings. As I've said seevral times I think it'll be interesting as much for how it's presented as for what precise content is presented.
Unwise? Naaah. Figure the most likely player (target audience) is likely to have been fine with just OGR and not bent out of shape by a lack of SGR, means it wasn't unwise. It means it just sucks for the small minority group that can't play without it.