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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
12.02.2012 , 07:53 PM | #3511
Quote: Originally Posted by fabiyun View Post
Addit:
But about the gendering, I don't get it. Okay she writes (it's written by a woman) "the Warrior". But you could also insert "the Soldier" or "The/Our Hero" and isn't that what we hear in pop culture all the time. I don't see this as an example of feminism or gender neutrality. In fact it kind of puts males on a pedestal, it's still so much implied also visually that this is a story about males.
Quoting the article, emphasis is mine...

"So how can the Warrior make their relationship with Vette work without it becoming a weakness?"

English has no pronoun for a neutral gender, and therefore people usually use kludges when a pronoun is absolutely needed. In this case, the writer used "they/their". While technically incorrect, it is a common usage, and will probably become correct style through use - other gender neutral pronouns (such as zir/ze) have failed to catch on.

There is no reason why, if she'd wanted to refer specifically to a male warrior, that she wouldn't have used "his" in the above quote.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
12.02.2012 , 07:56 PM | #3512
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
I don't think we need validation from another group. At all. Especially from GLAAD; we are that group. We are a representation of the LGBT gamer community.

All it'll take is the playerbase to do something. We stepping out of the little box we've been placed in. I really feel writing to GLAAD is going to bear far more fruit than waiting for someone else to say it's okay to speak up.

I'm not going to sit back and wait for someone else to validate me. I'd rather do it myself and the only way to do it is to get my voice out there.

Throughout the history of the LGBT community, we've had to stand on our own two feet. When other people felt our existence was invalid, the ones that came before us took it upon themselves to say something.

No one is going to stand up for us or validate us. We have to do it for ourselves. Writing to GLAAD is the best course of action. I don't want to just let my hope die in the forums with a whimper. I'm gonna go down swinging if that's what it takes.

Edit: Doup is a genus, I swear. He suggested writing to Dan Savage. Dan Savage, for those of you that don't know, is a syndicated columnist that's gay and VERY pro-LGBT rights. He does get national attention with some of his articles, so this is another direction. If we more outside support, than that is it.
I know natashina. And I didn't mean to say that we wouldn't manage without it. I wanted to point out though that in the othering and marginalisation process having allies undoes some of the opposition's derailing tactics.

But yes you're quite right. Our LGBTQ history does show we need to fend for ourselves.

I don't know Dan Savage, I'll have to google that.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
12.02.2012 , 07:58 PM | #3513
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
Quoting the article, emphasis is mine...

"So how can the Warrior make their relationship with Vette work without it becoming a weakness?"

English has no pronoun for a neutral gender, and therefore people usually use kludges when a pronoun is absolutely needed. In this case, the writer used "they/their". While technically incorrect, it is a common usage, and will probably become correct style through use - other gender neutral pronouns (such as zir/ze) have failed to catch on.

There is no reason why, if she'd wanted to refer specifically to a male warrior, that she wouldn't have used "his" in the above quote.
I'd like to see that through our gender coloured glasses. But it's also done by others without that intent. Especially when creating characters larger than life. Perhaps it's so, perhaps not. At this point in time I don't see that as BW Austin's grand outreach.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.02.2012 , 08:07 PM | #3514
No offense taken hun. I completely understand your point. **hugs**

I've got my email out to Dan Savage. Even if nothing comes of it, I wouldn't feel good about myself unless I tried. So hopefully this works. Let's try to get as many letters out there as we can.

We don't have anything to lose.

Here's a link to his blog; his email addy is on the right: It's worth a shot.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.02.2012 , 08:07 PM | #3515
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
While technically incorrect,
Actually, while I don't want to get into a big debate over grammar, its inaccuracy is contested.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/video/0033-hisher.htm
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Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
12.02.2012 , 08:17 PM | #3516
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
Quoting the article, emphasis is mine...

"So how can the Warrior make their relationship with Vette work without it becoming a weakness?"

English has no pronoun for a neutral gender, and therefore people usually use kludges when a pronoun is absolutely needed. In this case, the writer used "they/their". While technically incorrect, it is a common usage, and will probably become correct style through use - other gender neutral pronouns (such as zir/ze) have failed to catch on.

There is no reason why, if she'd wanted to refer specifically to a male warrior, that she wouldn't have used "his" in the above quote.
Sorry Zand I think you are stretching a bit there. I haven't bothered to read the article (why should I none of the companions offer me anything) but that example doesn't scream to me they are planning ahead or being sensitive about the issue. Like you said its just a common usage to show possessiveness. I don't read that as a deliberate attempt to show gender neutrality.

And thumbs up to everyone that sends out some emails to whatever source. The more contacts that are made the better the chance someone will care enough to take notice and contact EA or write a story or just try and show support.

Edit: And can I just say, any time they run these companion stories or polls it just really frakin ticks me off. Like they are just rubbing it in our faces.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
12.02.2012 , 08:24 PM | #3517
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
Edit: And can I just say, any time they run these companion stories or polls it just really frakin ticks me off. Like they are just rubbing it in our faces.
I agree with this sentiment.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.02.2012 , 08:31 PM | #3518
Irrespective of what people think about the article I believe it's safe to say that the mere fact that we're discussing the possibility of 'easter-egg' teasers and hints in the grammatical minutiae of a companion article is a strong indicator of how desperate we are for something - ANYTHING - to give us hope that Bioware: Austin hasn't just abandoned us.

It shouldn't have come to this.

Aren't we truly licking* the bottom of the barrel? We had to flood the Livestream with questions at the Guild Summit to get any kind of response to our constant requests for information on SGRAs. Since then we've had to gnaw at old bones they've seen fit to throw us.

We should have had more contact than this. This matter has been left to fester and rot. No wonder long-term posters like Uluain have spit the dummy and stormed off. A lot of people here, myself included, have been paying subscription fees since launch and part of the basis of that is that SGRAs were said to be coming. So damn coming, in fact, that they were slated for inclusion at launch and were prevented from it.

We're not talking about a feature they said they MIGHT put in down the track - they've told us outright it was always intended to be in. So why are they refusing to even come into the thread and speak to us?

If people are losing hope then Bioware has nowhere to point for a reason other than themselves. And if GLAAD and/or Dan Savage crack the whip and they act all innocent, well, it'll be time to call bulldust on the whole matter.

* = it won't accept the word scr_ aping. Hooray for text filters.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
12.02.2012 , 08:32 PM | #3519
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
Edit: And can I just say, any time they run these companion stories or polls it just really frakin ticks me off. Like they are just rubbing it in our faces.
Likewise.
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natashina's Avatar


natashina
12.02.2012 , 08:35 PM | #3520
You know, there is a hidden advantage to us being kinda forced back here.

We can talk about emailing GLAAD, Mr. Savage, or anyone else and no one would say anything.

The trolls could come in and do some minor damage. Then they'd leave after a couple of days and we could resume this conversation.

It's been established that the moderators do not read this thread. I don't think they even read the reported posts. I'm betting they get to the office with coffee in hand and simply look at a list. Then they just check off the list and delete those posts without even looking at it.

So keep 'em coming guys and spread the word.